Blind to Flagstick

[Adam Clayman]

You are a hundred yards from the green, in the fairway. You can't see the top of the flag.

Two courses recently mentioned on this  web site have used this aspect multiple times.

How many times a round should this occur?

Should it ever occur?

[JR Potts]

Zero.

Never.

[Tom_Doak]

As far as I'm concerned, you could have it blind from 100 yards out on every hole if you wanted to ... as long as you could see where the flag was from a reasonable place to play your second shot.

But, for holes that are truly blind from anywhere in the driving area, I don't think you want many of those.  Maybe once in a great while, but certainly not once per course.

Adam:  I hope the last part of your question wasn't serious, but you got Ryan to bite.

[Bill_McBride]

Adam, is the pin blind from EVERYWHERE? Or just from the right side of the fairway if you should hit it left (i.e. NGLA several tee balls)?  Or can you see it from everywhere if you know to lay up to a certain distance?

None of that bothers me too much if it's a hole you're going to play more than once.

[Adam Clayman]

Tom, I did throw that "ever" question in, to see who feels that strongly about blindness.

Bill- The courses I had in mind, I have not played. Just heard comments from some who have, and, I wondered what's the level of acceptability. From my understanding, these were from the middle of the fairway.

I'm well aware of plenty of situations, at Ballyneal, where a shot placed in certain areas, or specific sides of the fairway, will not afford the golfer a view of the green, or the flag. But as Tom eludes to, there's never any doubt where to go, because you've already seen what you need to see.

Also, Who will ever forget Tiger's four iron from 205 on Saturday at Hoylake. Totally blind.

 

[Chris Perry]

Sometimes you get a pleasnt surprise from it.

A few of the best darts I've thrown for tap-ins I never saw land or stop, only to break out in a cheshire-like grin upon getting to the green and seeing where it ended up.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

BULLOCKS RYAN, BULLOCKS!!!!!

Quite obviously you have never visited the National Golf Links of America....The Greatest Course In America...

[James Bennett]

As far as I'm concerned, you could have it blind from 100 yards out on every hole if you wanted to ... as long as you could see where the flag was from a reasonable place to play your second shot.

But, for holes that are truly blind from anywhere in the driving area, I don't think you want many of those.  Maybe once in a great while, but certainly not once per course.

Adam:  I hope the last part of your question wasn't serious, but you got Ryan to bite.

Tom Doak

I am sure that Mark Ferguson will correct me if I am wrong.

I have played and enjoyed holes at Beechtree and St Andrews beach where only the top of the flag is visible for the shot into the green (eg StAB#5 - a better view of the hole is afforded from the tee on this par 4, so the player is well aware of what is in front of them despite only seeing the flagtop on the approach shot ).

I also noted that at StAB#1 that the flag on this par 5 can be seen on the tee shot but disappears from sightthereafter till you get perhaps 60 yards from the green.  The flag is certainly hidden if you are say 100 yards out or further.  I found this to be quite a challenge when I played, and did pick the wrong line into the green (and finished left down in the hollow chipping back up to the green).  Is this a 'once in a great while' hole?    It is a great green site.

I guess I found the combination of a blind shot to an inverted saucer green to be a unique challenge for a first hole.

James B

[Tommy_Naccarato]

-The 10th at Apache Stronghold......
-Depending where your at on the approach, the 13th at Stone Eagle.....
-If your right on your tee shot, your close to dead on the 6th at Stone Eagle.

[Matt_Cohn]

I'd rather be blind from 200 yards than from 100. From 200, I'm just trying to get the ball on the green anyway, most of the time. So if I have to pick a target in the background and it turns out that I'm off by a few yards, no big deal. There is some joy in coming around the hill and seeing the ball on the green.

From 100 yards, the expectation is for a precision shot. If the shot is blind, it seems like a letdown. I probably can't try to be very precise because I can't see the pin; at the same time, there's not as much suspense to the shot because it's a wedge, and it's probably going on the green anyway. It would feel like a bit of a letdown.

I'll take the appropriately forgiving 200 yard version anytime.

[Brian_Ewen]

Adam
Can you clarify your question ?.

Are you talking about courses that have had holes purposely built blind ? .

Or , are you including courses built 100+ years ago , over land that left the designer with no option , but to include blind shots ? .

Brian

[John Kavanaugh]

3rd VN 100 yd marker 100% blind....I don't buy this notion that if you can see the flag it is a blind shot.  Tiger could see the top of the flag at the 4th when he made 2...

[Mike_Cirba]

The first time I played Lederach on the uphill 650ish yard, par 5 #12 I hit my best drive of the day, followed by a driver off the deck that skimmed the top of the center grass bunker (perhaps taking 15 yards off the shot), and was left with a completely blind, 200 yard uphill approach.

After walking up a bit to get a line to the flag, I came back and nutted a 4-iron perfectly to 8 feet on a very shallow green.

Unfair?  Yes, probably.

FUN and thrilling?  Absolutely.

Bottom line...whether you can visually see it or not, you're still playing to a "line", and you aren't looking at the flag as you take your swing.  

There aren't enough of them in modern design, IMHO.

[Kai Hulkkonen]

My first post.

Superb feature for rewarding the thinking golfer, if indeed there is a chance to play for position with better visibility. I would love to see it built into modern designs more often. Have to say that I'm actually quite surprised that this isn't used more often as "blindness" is such a brilliant half-a-shot penalty!
Unfortunately, living in Europe you only see such clever designs on the very downmarket courses that never had the funds to bulldoze everything flat...

Kai

[Adam Clayman]

Brian, I was referencing modern designs built purposefully.

It would be my contention that as long as one can see one's ball at one's feet, it's not blind.  

As long as there are clues on where to go I see no problem with someone being blind to the flag.

Also, As long as there's an option to avoid the blindness, I think it's great.