carry mounds off tee/in front of greens (pics)

[ian]

At Lookout Point in Fonthill Ontario, Walter Travis built many mounding complexes that were directly in play. The interesting feature is that many are less than 100 yards from the tee and two are 50 yards from the green. The ones from the green do indicate the ideal place to run up the ball, and the ones of the tee provide the ideal line to play the tee shot.

Are there any other examples with other architects, especially modern, where this technique is used with mounding. The only modern example I could come up with was the mounds on #5 at Bandon Dunes that indicate the ideal aggresive line. Do you like the technique?

The original 8th hole at Lookout featured this mound complex in the centre of the fairway to indicate the line

The current 14th has mounds 50 yards short of the green on this 435 yard (very) uphill par four. This would be the ideal line to bounce the ball on the front, which is open.

These mounds are 100 yards off the tee, dead centre of the fairway, (they indicate the line) but the hole is clearly seen from the tee

The final complex is the (bunker?) hollow short of the 5th. The 5th is a 140 yard hole with a 2800 sq.ft. green protected by two six foot deep bunkers either side. Even today players bounce the ball in. No record shows this as a bunker, but the club continues to look for a confirmation in the local archives.

[TEPaul]

Ian:

That's just such interesting old stuff! Such interesting old use of architectural features. It definitely looks like the architecture of "an era" as there's a real lack of "tying in" those features to the surrounding grades but that's very much part of what fascinates me personally with the evolution of architecture!

I think the idea is an interesting one to go with occasionally today but I wouldn't recommend it in a wholesale sense today!

Maybe a couse here or there as a tribute to that early era a little like the "tribute" Coore & Crenshaw did to the early English heathland era with the look of the bunkering at Hidden Creek in New Jersey! Apparently the raw site sort of reminded them of the English heathland look so they went with that architectural tribute!

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Ian,
The mounding at Bandon seems like more of a hazard, where these pictures seem to use them more as targets.  

Would you agree?

How different is this than using a bunker off the tee to set alignment?

[ian]

Tom, I have seen many things similar to these, but your right, they all come out of that same era. The part I don't get is why. We have really embraced the return of the carry bunker recently, but mounds have not seen the same revival. There are two directional mounds, at Lookout, that give alignment for blind tee shots too.

Ben, I think its the same idea just using a different feature.
I really like carry bunkers well short that help you set up; #2 at Cypress, the 5th at Crystal Downs, to name a couple of examples.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

How does one describe Line of Charm evolved out of existence? Maybe there is a distinct possibility that some of these mounds, especially when there is the distinct possibility of looking like sand hazards, were in fact, the Line of Charm. It's just that their original intent has regressed over a period of time.

Looking further, after studying some pictures of Travis' work, (and other worked inspired by Travis) I have seen where he seemed to utilize a very descript mound next to a very descript bunker. The second to last picture makes me think of this with that ominous mound there in the back.

What type of soil is the site on?

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Ian
Travis referred to these features as 'humps and hollows', and occasionly there was some sand involved. I'm pretty confident the feature in front of the 5th was a bunker. Travis often placed a single bunker well short of the green on his par-3s.

[brad miller]

Sort of reminds me of Cape Arundel in Maine another fun Travis design.

[ian]

Tommy, they certainly do indicate the line of charm. The soil is mainly light gravel with mixed sands and silts. I think Tom M might have hit on something I have forgot, the mounds may have been bunkers but not in the conventional sence. I have seen a photo of one of the courses with what appeared to look like an attempt to emulate small seaside dunes.

Tom M, I agree with you on five; just wanted to prove it through an old photo first since 15 was definately not a bunker. Good point on these elements having sand involved (see above comment). The other element that often went with this feature was the use of "unmaintained areas" (his words) to seperate tees and fairways that created an island approach more like Pine Valley (not to that extreme of course).

Brad, Cape Arundul is the course I want to see most. Bruce Hepner described the course in great detail and had me wanting to book a ticket the next day.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Ian,

MacKenzie used mounds strategically (or so it seems he tried at one time) on #11 and #14 at Augusta National. Television and green grass flatten out these mounds, but their role in making depth perception difficult is really rather misunderstood, and their impact on drives placed on certain sides of the fairway may be subtle, but definitely interesting. On both they also prevent a run-up approach to certain hole locations, or at least, make such an attempted shot risky. But we don't see many run-ups played there anymore.

And of course MacKenzie's mound construction style was a bit more camouflaged, though they don't appear natural either!

Geoff

[ian]

Geoff are both those mounds strategic and are they based upon the defensive front mound of the 14th at St Andrews? Or are these well short of the target, and having a different role?

[Mike_Cirba]

Ian;

Don't forget the marvelous mound in front of the 4th green at TOC, which is still quite "in play" for us mere mortals for whom a 450 yard par four still requires a long-iron approach.  

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Ian,

I would definitely characterize the mounds in question at Augusta as intended to be strategic and I would have to guess odes to 14 at St. Andrews (since it was on the minds of Jones and MacKenzie so much at ANGC). I don't know if these features a so strategic anymore because the ground game is just not part of the equation for most, and thus, hiding the area of approach just doesn't impact many players.

In both instances the mounds make it hard to see and confidently attempt a bump and run approach to certain hole locations. Both also hide the ground in front and on the green from certain sides of the fairway (I believe the primary original purpose). But with Augusta now dictating the play off the tee, on 11 especially, the charm of the mounds is lost a bit, though not completely. And of course, with the shift in the way approaches are hit (to all aerial), that plays a role in diffusing the importance of the mounds. But still, I was shocked by the mound on 14, it really is a visual annoyance for drives hit down the left side, something you don't get a feel for on television, particularly if the hole is cut in the back left location.
Geoff

[henrye]

Ian, the 2nd hole on the Escarpment course at Royal Niagara has these mounds with a few bunkers in them.  It is a new course.