News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


JMorgan

What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« on: July 18, 2006, 08:59:41 AM »
As a new guy to the field, I am curious to hear what the more seasoned gca's think about when they think about #18. My personal favorites tend to be more low-key affairs like Plainfield #18.  I abhor the requisite artificial water feature that seems to find its way on many modern courses.  

Any thoughts or opinions?

Brent Hutto

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006, 09:44:06 AM »
It seems to me that the modern stereotype of a home hole is the Par 5 with water in play, preferably both on the tee shot and for anyone going for the green in two. Overdone. Boring.

A similar thing can be done with a longish Par 4 a la the Blue Monster at Doral. Not quite as overdone. Not totally boring. Putting it on the hook side (for righties) is probably a key concept although for weaker players it might be interesting to put water down the slice side.

One way to go against this trend is with a hole that requires subtlety or touch under pressure rather than just executing a shot that avoids trouble. I like the idea of a short but not necessarily drivable Par 4 for an eighteenth. The one that first comes to mind is at Palmetto in Aiken. I would think for good players it is almost as much a half-shot hole as a reachable Par 5 but it's not really a matter of power as much as precision required to get a needed birdie.

So here are some aspects of the eighteenth at Palmetto that make it a great finishing hole:

1) Power is not required or even all that much of an advantage. So in a tournament you wouldn't watch two players in the lead arriving at that hole and think that the bigger hitter automatically has a huge advantage, which is the case with most do-or-die reachable Par 5 home holes. Likewise in a friendly match.

2) Both the tee shot and, especially, the approach shot have changes of elevation. In theory, a player in contention and playing well will be pumped up coming to the final hole and I think a change in elevation gives the player one more thing to take into account in judging a precise approach.

3) For big hitters the driver is not taken out of their hands yet it is almost certainly not the automatic percentage play, either. By that I mean that even for someone who can reach the green or greenside bunker off the tee, it isn't necessarily a chicken-out shot to play an iron to the fairway instead. There is plenty of trouble for a driver shot blocked way right that even a lost ball is possible but the fairway target is easy enough that an iron shot would have to be absolutely terrible to do worse than the fairway bunker.

4) There is just enough of a dogleg to suggest an advantage to playing for the right side of the fairway. In reality, the fairway is narrow enough and the approach shot is short enough (wedge for good players) that there's no need to flirt with the right.

5) The tee is back in a low spot tucked into the tree which makes the hole look a bit narrower and more uphill than it really plays. Good players don't like even semi-blind shots but that's what they face if they want to bang it up by the green.

6) Compared to a "par 4.5" Par 5, there is less opportunity to make up for one poor swing. Being a Par 4 with no water in play means that your opponent(s) are unlikely to make six or worse so if you hit a bad tee shot you really need to take whatever chance necessary to get on the green or fringe with your second shot.

Bob Jenkins

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 11:32:54 AM »

To me, you want a hole which has a better likelihood of being decisive in a match. A true risk - reward hole where if you have to take a chance and can pull it off, you get the reward and can put your opponent away or tie the match or whatever. Many think a risk reward must involve a carry over water but not so.

It would be interesting to see a hole like 14 at Bandon Trails as an 18th. It would provide plenty of entertainment from the clubhouse window!

Bob J.

TEPaul

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 12:38:07 PM »
As MacKenzie explained, a great "home" hole is one which is within very close proximity to your bedroom so you can go out and practice on it in your pajamas. This is why I've always been particularly enamored by NGLA's #1 or #18.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 12:39:04 PM by TEPaul »

BCrosby

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 01:27:49 PM »
Brent -

Agreed about Palmetto's 18th, though I feel obligated to tell you that the last time I played it I duck hooked my drive into the trees on the left (nearly onto the practice tee) and then skulled a wedge under the pines, through a bunker to six inches. Biridie. Easy hole. ;)

Bob

Troy Alderson

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 01:43:27 PM »
I would like to see a finishing hole par 4 with an very elevated tee and green where a long drive will roll back to a valley and a short drive will roll down to the valley evening the playing field.  Keep the front of the green open with mounding and bunkers around the green to penalize the off approach shot.  Keep the turf short tee to green and provide a green that brings in strategy for placing the tee shot on one side of the "through the green" or the other.  Keep the hazards to a minimum, just bunkers, no water.

Troy

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 04:20:12 PM »
A very short par 3 to a very long 19th hole~   :)

JWK

John Chilver-Stainer

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2006, 04:39:37 PM »
Developing JWK’s theme.

At Brora the final hole features a very steep rise just before the green which falls away to a deep swale below. A local told me that to pass away the slow evenings they sit at the window and take bets wether the next player makes the green or not.

Yes - the Green of the home hole should provide light entertainment for the 19th Hole.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2006, 08:07:07 PM »
James Morgan,

I believe the current 18th hole at Plainfield was originally # 15 or # 16.

Drama and pressure come to mind when I think of a very good finishing hole.

Like obscenity, I may not be able to define a good to great home hole, but, I know it when I see it.

# 18 at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock, Merion, Pebble Beach, Seminole, Pine Tree, Boca Rio, Pine Valley, Riviera and others come to mind.

rjsimper

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2006, 08:25:30 PM »
To me, a par 4.5 of some sort, and a hole where being in the fairway does not essentially guarantee a 4.  I find courses with Driver - wedge finishing holes to be a bit of a letdown.  

JMorgan

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2006, 08:19:34 AM »
Let me add a follow-up question to this query because I am still searching for the ah-ha:  if you had one home hole to take with you to the proverbial desert island (or play in your pajamas with MacKenzie), which one would you choose and why?  

Peter Galea

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2006, 08:33:16 AM »
Paraphrasing here, "The home or closing holes should frighten the timid, cause indecision to those protecting position, and inspire the proficient."
"chief sherpa"

Forrest Richardson

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2006, 02:44:23 PM »
James,

I spent a good deal of time throughout Routing the Golf Course discussing finishing holes. Sadly, I chose not to keep all of it in one chapter!

One bit of information that we gleaned from designers was that more prefer par-5s to par-4s (3s were not an option in the survey question we posed...we just wanted to know, between 4s and 5s, which typically make for better finishers in their opinions.)

56% answered that a par-5 makes for a better finish. I agree, feeling that the element of skill and luck can be brought to the surface in higher probability during the play of a par-5 than with a 4 or 3. This, however, can certainly be thwarted by the design of a particularly poor par-5...or even an exceptional par-4 and par-3.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Padraig Dooley

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2006, 02:50:53 PM »
I think the home hole should not play into the setting sun.

Two famous finishing holes which do are at Lytham and Pebble Beach. I think this really takes from them. I hate not seeing the flight of the ball.
There are painters who transform the sun to a yellow spot, but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence, transform a yellow spot into the sun.
  - Pablo Picasso

Forrest Richardson

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2006, 02:58:21 PM »
Sunlight is important...but it depends on the location (region) and how many rounds are anticipated at the club. Routing, of course, is an essential determining factor. We have a finishing hole at Las Palomas that plays westerly, but it only is a factor for s short period of time — maybe 2 groups — and only at certain times of the year. The chances of a golfer finding his/her way to the exact place and point in time of a direct fronting sun setting is minimal...unfortunately it is another form of the rub of the green.

Of course, though, I prefer closing holes not to be into the west. And, by the way, it really should extend to the series of finishers, not just 18.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Wayne_Kozun

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2006, 03:02:58 PM »
It seems to me that the modern stereotype of a home hole is the Par 5 with water in play, preferably both on the tee shot and for anyone going for the green in two. Overdone. Boring.
What is the genesis of this?  Was it Pebble?

Greg Tallman

Re:What makes a good home hole, anyway?
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2006, 04:37:43 PM »
A good finishing hole is one where it would not be overly surprising for a 2 shot swing (drama if you will).

This could be achieved with virtually any par/length scenario but the final hole is often determined more by those that precede it in terms of length and par.

Area that C&C ignored at Kapalua.

Would be interested to hear TD's commnet on how early in the process he begins trying to locate the 18th.

Intersting note that the 18th at Cabo del Sol Ocean was not originally on the ocean... current 18 was 17 with a non-descript 4-par coming up the hill as 18. In the end a good decision was made.

Tags: