[wsmorrison]

Mike,

I really didn't get a sense that the course was narrow or over-treed.  It was in harmony with the surrounding lands.  Whil this was a dairy farm and is surrounded by other farms, there are a lot of trees in the region.

I think the trees behind 12 green could be removed and that perched green would be even more intimidating.  I guess there's a fairway behind it, but as I recall it isn't that close and shouldn't be a problem considering 12 is a short par 4.

My photograph of the 4th gives that impression due to shadows more than a real narrowing.  I don't recall what the course was like when it first opened (I only saw the course during construction).  I didn't get a sense of distance on some holes--that is where the landing areas would be, especially on the holes with elevation changes.

Scott,

My reference to old school is that the tee shot, to my eye, had a classic look to it; very Flynn like actually the way it used the elevation change and the cant of the fairway.

[Tom_Doak]

George:  If you know your plans far enough in advance, you might be able to get away with doing some work under farm guidelines, but you run the risk of getting the authorities angry and having them oppose the project once it comes up for discussion.

Scott:  The pond on the ninth hole is an old farm pond that was there long before the golf course ... it's a classic half-moon shape with a dam across the valley at the low end, so it presented some problems in the routing.  (We had to build the 8th tee up about twenty feet so you could see over the dam 150 yards in front of it.)  But, I thought it was better on the back nine to play the ninth along the pond a la Pete Dye (remember, my style was not as well formed or well known back in 1992) and then put the tenth tee on the dam playing up away from it.  And I'm actually quite fond of the ninth, it has a severe green built into the hillside that's different from most water holes you would see, and you can try to use the bank to swing around to a back left hole location.

The rectangular tees on the Old course were a request from the client, and I didn't have a problem with them.  But we have rarely done them since.  I found it difficult to build natural-looking square-cornered features on the sidehill slopes at Stonewall and decided I shouldn't try that again.  They certainly don't look good in dunesy environments, but I would have no problem using them on a flattish site.  We didn't use rectangular tees on the newer North course ... well, maybe a few, but not as a rule.

[Tom_Doak]

Wayne:

Behind the 12th green is Route 345, as the hole plays right out to the club entrance.  The trees are there mostly for noise protection, although someone has recently built a golf course with some development across the street.    Luckily we anticipated such things ten years ago and the trees are getting reasonably big now.

I looked back at all your pictures after Mike's comment, but did not really see anywhere that the trees are starting to encroach too much ... in fact, I was pleased to see that some of our original plantings are finally starting to blend in.  The fourth has always been tight and a tough place to grow grass, but a lot of the offending trees are over the property line so there's not much more we can do.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

Yes, of course.  Now I can picture where the hole is.  My biggest problem on the ground is figuring out where I am relative to points on the compass and certainly points on a golf course.  I'm sure, even though it is now a quiet country road, it may turn into an Ardmore Avenue type trafficked road someday---hopefully not for a loooong time.  Given that those trees hide the road and dampen the noise, they are necessary.  The green would have a good look without them but it isn't worth it.

Maybe my pictures give the impression that there is some encroachment by trees but that is misleading; there was absolutely no sense of it on the course.  

[Tom_Doak]

Wayne:

345 ain't no quiet country road!  For some reason there is a lot of truck traffic going through there, and as they grind up the grade from Route 401 toward the entrance of the golf course they are quite loud.

[Mike_Cirba]

Wayne:

345 ain't no quiet country road!  For some reason there is a lot of truck traffic going through there, and as they grind up the grade from Route 401 toward the entrance of the golf course they are quite loud.

Route 345 is actually quite the beautiful road that crosses through some terrific farm and woodland terrain, but the reason for the amount of traffic that is much more than one would expect given the lack of population in the area is twofold;  

1) It's the route to the lovely French Creek State Park, which is a popular summer recreational spot just a north of the golf course(s).

2) It's also the preferred connection for folks like me in Berks County to get to Downingown and points south and west.  I was just through there last weekend to get to Delaware and it's still a treat to catch glimpses of the North Course at Stonewall on one side and the 12th and 13th at French Creek on the other.  Contrary to Tom's contention, I tend to slow down a whole lot on that stretch!  

[Dan Herrmann]

Wayne,
Google Earth shows Stonewall very well, and its relationship to the surrounding countryside.  

And Tom is 100% correct on the bridge thing.  If the original farmers hadn't put high areas in some areas, and a farm road in another, French Creek could never have been built (across the street).  

Its ironic because most of the environmental movement out here arose from a plan to dam French Creek and turn a lot of what you see today as Stonewall and French Creek GC into a man-made lake.  There's even an existing organization, Green Valleys, that strives to protect open space and the quality of the watershed.

I've seen fox, deer, herons, egrets, and a wide variety of really uncommon birds (a scarlet tanager today) out there.  Somehow I think the idea of golf being unfriendly to the environment is way, way off base.

Of course, this environmentalist doesn't see the harm in a bridge.   Some of these regulations are pretty crazy.

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We went over there this afternoon to check out the Trans National.  Keep in mind that we played across the street at about 7am and had a few holes with heavy fog early and some very heavy rain on 16.  But it stopped, so we made it up to 1 green when it started raining pretty heavily again.


I sure hope they have a successful event, but it may be tough with the hot weather.  Fortunately, our rain should exit the area tonight, but 100F isn't out of the question later in the week.

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