News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« on: July 25, 2006, 12:10:24 PM »
In anticipation of tommorow's GCA Lawsonia get together I thought an early William B. Langford would be in order.  

Riverside is one of Chicago's oldest clubs dating back to a 3 hole course in 1893.  They expanded and moved to a new site with nine holes in 1894.  The course was expanded in 1917-19 when additional property was obtained.  The Des Plaines River runs through the property.  

A 1917 design, this would be one of Langford's first courses, possibly his first 18 hole design.  Can anyone cite an earlier example of a Langford course?  

There are ample examples of Langford's distinctive fairway bunkering such as on the hole at the very top and the two holes running N-S in the middle of the property.  There are also several wrap around the green bunkers that are typical of Langford.  Many cite Raynor's work at Chicago Golf as a significant influence, but this predates Raynor's revisions at Chicago Golf 1923 or his work at Shoreacres 1921.  Langford probably was familiar with MacDonald and Raynor's NY work (NGLA, Lido, Piping Rock) as he went to graduate school at Columbia.

At Riverside Langford did some revision work in 1951 followed by Edward Lawrence Packard in 1977 and later in 1994 by Killian and Nugent.  Three holes on the SE and a par 3 on the North have been taken out of play and 4 new holes by Killian and Nugent were added on new property NE of the river.  The old holes have been turned into a practice area.  Club is currently interviewing architects for a Master Plan.  

1939



Current

« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 12:32:27 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2006, 12:58:55 PM »
Dan, that is a wonderful contrast of aerials.  Thanks for the study of just how far askew GCAs of the 60s-90s revised courses with their prevailing ideas of design, which in this case seems to have ruined a perfectly great golf course.  The 1939 aerial indeed shows all the classic Langford bunker placements on diagonals, (I like to call them gull wings) with the mound and sand portions sculpted somewhat concave and sweeping from high mound to tapering off.

I wonder if Langford got material for his earthworks platforms from river dredging that may have gone on way back then, before a more strict regulatory environment.  It is clear that K&N or Packard got material from pond digging in the new quadrant of holes in the NE.

Thankfully, we can still see those gull wings tomorrow at Lawsonia.  Particularly off tee on 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 16, 17 and 18.  I love the look of 17 off the tee there.  

Lawsonia still has a couple of original wrap around bunkers that had been segmented over the years.  But, that is a trifle and the segmenting did offer egress off the big platform greens.  So, there was need not to restore all of them where players would have to take sweeping walks rather than cross the sand, coming down off the platforms.

From the aerial, the K&N and Packard influenced by RB Harris school is so completely obvious.  Moon faced bunkers, probably easier green surrounds for equipment, and probably knocked down many of the platforms that I suspect that Langford built up in what I assume was and is relatively flat riverside ground.

The new course doesn't look like it is any mundane test, however.  It looks like a plenty tough course in its modern form.  I haven't seen it, but wouldn't turn down a chance to play it.

Great stuff Dan.    ;D
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 01:00:18 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2006, 01:06:42 PM »
Also, it is obvious that the "riverside" original and added hole are a ball busting pair of holes.  I am not getting the routing down however.  It appears a bit of a puzzle to put them together.

Has that course held any big competitions?
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 01:19:45 PM »
RJ,  

Thanks.

I haven't played there, but my friend Mike who is joing us tommorow was there recently.  Until I told him its was a Langford he didn't know, understandable given the changes in the bunkering and the new holes.  Once I told him it was Langford he said he could definitely see Langford in the raised platform greens.  

Not aware of any major tournaments there. My neighbor who has played there a few times tells me its fairly short by today's standards, but still a good test.  

It will be interesting to see where they go with the Master Plan.  

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2006, 02:47:29 PM »
Dan,

Killian and Nugent were no more by 1994.  Was the work in 1984 or was it done by one or the other?

The bulbous bunkers RJ refers to would not have been typical of either Packard or KN from the late 70's on, so those must have been an earlier era work, probably the 60's.

RJ,

If the channel had been dredged, I doubt the mature trees would have been along the river, even in 1939, but could be wrong. I do see some wetland excavation on the side of the river in the new photo.

Its always interesting to see what survives in these photos, as well as to see what maturing trees do to the fw bunkers - i.e. force them to be moved to be parallel to the fw, not angled across them.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2006, 03:14:24 PM »
Jeff,

The 1994 work was done by Dick Nugent and Associates.

 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2006, 05:42:16 PM »
Dan,
Thanks for the great aerial. Riverside, CC of Lansing , and Millburn (KS) are very early in Langford's career. I believe Milburn dates from late 1917. I know of nothing that dates from 1915.The bunkering  in this photo  has angles,that remind me  of his 1930s work at Skokie

Ron Whitten may know which  course is Langfords first. I hope
your group has  agreat time at Lawsonia !

Mark

T_MacWood

Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2006, 06:50:28 AM »
I would agree that this has to be one of Langford's first and looks like his style was set early on. I like it.

Then again its hard to get the scale everything based on a 2-dimensional aerial. What's left of them, are his features as pronounced at this course as his later courses like Lawsonia, Skokie, Culver, etc? The scale of the features of his later courses is pretty awesome.

I'm having a hard time identifying eighteen holes on the original routing. Any ideas?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 06:52:25 AM by Tom MacWood »

Jeff Goldman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2006, 10:51:03 PM »
There appear to be a number of basically NLE Langfords in Chicago.  Ruth Lake CC is listed as originally by Langford, but I seriously doubt that anyone involved with the club, especially those involved in the recent renovation by Arthur Hills, has any idea what was once there (I don't either). Dan, is Ruth Lake one of the old aerials?

Jeff
That was one hellacious beaver.

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2006, 11:05:41 PM »
Here is some info on recent work:

www.cybergolf.com/news/golfnews3914.asp
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2006, 11:27:01 PM »
Jeff,  I have Ruth Lake but not where I can get to it at the moment.  I will post when I get a chance.  When you start looking at it, its pretty amazing how many courses Langford designed and reworked in the Chicago area.  

I will need to do some work on the Langford courses, but for August I'm going to put up some of Bendelow's Chicago work.  My son played at 100 year old South Shore today and I took a brief look around.  Some Bendelow is very rudimentary like SS and others (as you know at Olympia Fields) can be quite good.


Steve,  in addition to that work from 2004 or 2005 which you can see on the Google aerial, it is my understanding they are going to be undertaking a new master plan at Riverside.  To illustrate Jeff's point, Lohman remodeled Schaumburg Golf Course when the town took it over.  It is now touted as a Lohman designed course.  It was a Langford course in its prior incarnation as a private club under a different name which I can't recall at the moment.  Don't how much Langford was preserved.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

T_MacWood

Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2006, 06:55:07 AM »
What is the best preserved Langford course in Chicago?

I was hoping that it would be Skokie (because it was considered one of his best at the time he redesigned it), but it appears the restoration architect introduced (or re-introduced) a Ross flavor. Today it is more like a cross between Ross & Langford...a Rossford

Dan Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2006, 07:41:49 AM »
Tom,  

An excellent question that I have wondered about quite a bit.  I really don't know as all but the updated Schaumburg are private.  Some of the other Chicago area folks are going to need to weigh in on this one.  

You can see Langford at Ridgemoor CC where Hogan won the Hale America Open in the 1940s in the raised green platforms and positioning of some of the fairway bunkering but not much else.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

T_MacWood

Re:Chicago Aerial Riverside GC: Langford 1917
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2006, 01:36:31 PM »
I'm not sure in what state the course is in today, but Glen Oak CC was considered one of Langford's better Chicago courses after he redesigned in the 30s.