[Willie_Dow]

Reading Investor Business Daily today I got thinking about labor costs on our courses.  The bill states that if a job is where Davis-Bacon sets the wage, then that law applies.  Prevailing wage fans say adding it to the immigration bill will keep guest workers from hurting native workers' pay.

Will this affect next year's green budget?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

All hail Davis-Bacon!

It's probably the one thing that is going to save working families from poverty.

I better end it right there before this turns into a poltical gunfight!

[Bill_McBride]

Just keep in mind that Davis-Bacon only applies to federal contracting.

Here on the Florida Panhandle, we find that we have no problem meeting Davis-Bacon, in fact our standard wages are routinely higher.

But Davis-Bacon shouldn't affect golf course workers - unless it's a military golf course!

[Willie_Dow]

Tommy

I figured you might be a quick responder!  Perhaps we'll see how courses can be maintained with less manual labor.

Bill

"Exactly how this would apply to guest workers is still unclear, with Senate aides, lobbyists and outside experts giving varying answers."  Per IBD

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill,
Davis-Bacon, as the law, works for all public works projects, not just federal. However I would rather avoid getting into the symantics of how certain states treat that law with the term, "Right to work."

I do think everyman should have a Right to Work, as well as everyman should have a right to have collective bargainning, as well as everyman should be able to be in business for himself if he aspires to be. I do feel that with Davis-Bacon, it protects what is the foundation of the last one thin thread left in the fabric of decency in the workplace.

How so?

Because whether some like it or not, D-B helps set scale of the wage. It also promotes experienced workers, as well as educating them to be more experienced (by Apprenticeship standards)

I'm starting to sound like a Union Agreement!

Willie,
Why is it we only get together for weddings, funerals and Bar Mitzvahs?

Truthfully, I do think what you are saying has merit in terms of separation of the classes. Today we are on a fast tract to Rich or Poor.  There is (soon) nothing in between. As far as affecting golf courses, well most are not going to have money to afford them. They'll be systematically eliminated. After all, round are in fact down, even with Michelle Wie.

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy, I have only seen Davis-Bacon on federal projects, but as you mention, Florida is a right to work state, so maybe we are the exception rather than the rule.

[Larry_Rodgers]

I too am only familiar with Davis bacon on federally funded construction projects. They do apply to military golf course construction projects and they do have different pay rates for different parts of the country. I am not sure they come into play on golf course maintenance budgets.

I will ask my favorite gov contracting firm how this works on bases with outsourced labor contracts.

Below is a link for anyone wishing to see how these wages compare in your area.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/davisbacon/

[Willie_Dow]

Thanks for the input Larry.  I note that for Chester County, PA, where I live, Landscape Laborer rate is $17.13/hr.  I wonder what the average landscape laborer rate is for the golf course maintenance crew in this county ?

[Bill_McBride]

A good example of your tax dollars at work.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Bill,

In Illinois we pay Davis Bacon on all public funded work...City, State, School or whatever.  What is wrong with paying a hard working talented man $30,000 a year or so...Doesn't leave much for green fees or travel for that matter.  

[Craig Sweet]

As a former owner of a landscape company I can tell you that here in Montana landscape labor is billed to the customer at $30-$35 dollars per hour and the employee is generally paid $8.00-$10.00.

However, the federally set "prevailing wage", which is what Davis-Bacon is based on, might be closer to $17 per hour for the employee.  

Davis-Bacon essentially divides the country into regions. A "prevailing wage in New York, for example, might be $3-$5 more per hour than a prevailing wage in Idaho.

[Bill_McBride]

JakaB Barney, are you telling me you are paying a non-union laborer $14.42 per hour ($30,000 year base salary)?  I'm going to assume you are paying all union wages in which case that's probably low.

Unions are what's missing today, although I'm okay without them personally as the owner of a construction company.  In 1964 I spent six months after college waiting for my Navy OCS class to start, and worked as a union laborer in street construction in San Francisco.  My hourly wage was $8.63 per hour.  That's not far off what non-union laborers in many parts of the couuntry might be making today.

[James Bennett]

Willie Dow

Your post is along similar lines to one of my thoughts during my recent worldly travels - what is the impact of wage rates on golf course maintenance?  It is slightly different to your premise of 'how will this affect the greens budget?' but similar.

In Australia, our casual labour rate for golf course work is about $18 per hour.  We pay unqualified course staff (if we have any unqualified) nearly $30,000 pa (compared to a national average wage of about $40k).  At this stage, we don't really have the low rates of pay that I understand the US has (eg the US$6-7 per hour rates).  We pay our qualified staff more, although not as great a differential versus unqualified as is probably justified.

In the UK, I think the wages arrangement is similar to that of Australia - no cheaper minimum rates of pay.

What does this mean (from what I saw)?  Well, except for the wealthier of clubs, the UK and Australian courses manage with less than 10 course staff (often 5 to 7).  This means fairways aren't cut daily (once a week), that bunkers aren't raked daily (once a week), that roughs aren't prepared at such a high standard (perhaps once a week to once a fortnight).  And, hand watering is an activity that you have to really want to do (it is a great idea but it takes up critical resoucres). And that there is less (?none) hand-weeding of daisies, weeds and rogue turf-types (poa etc).  The key activities are undertaken but many are at a reduced frequency.

It was interesting to see how the different socio-economic arrangements of the different states and countries led to different pricing structures for golf (membership and green fees) as well as the maintenance strategies.  Amazingly, golf was still golf despite how many people were engaged on the golf course maintenance.

James B

[John Kavanaugh]

JakaB Barney, are you telling me you are paying a non-union laborer $14.42 per hour ($30,000 year base salary)?  I'm going to assume you are paying all union wages in which case that's probably low.

Unions are what's missing today, although I'm okay without them personally as the owner of a construction company.  In 1964 I spent six months after college waiting for my Navy OCS class to start, and worked as a union laborer in street construction in San Francisco.  My hourly wage was $8.63 per hour.  That's not far off what non-union laborers in many parts of the couuntry might be making today.

Bill,

Yes I'm a union contractor...With benefits my cost per man is just around $35 per hour...Do you honestly believe that if my people were paid less the cost of road construction would magically go down...I doubt it.   Better that the working man makes a living wage then people like me get any fatter..Davis Bacon is a good law.

[Bill_McBride]

You are the natural son of Woodie Guthrie - and good on ya!

[Willie_Dow]

James B

Your frugal thoughts on golf course maintenance are well presented.  It seems to me that our use of labor saving devices, plus the proper design to enable the use of that equipment, seems to be lacking these days.  New construction and renovation projects don't seem to appeal to those maintenance methods.
Does that mean that guest-worker labor is taking up the slack?  If it is, this "Senate Imigration Bill Could Expand Prevailing Wage Laws" - (The title of the IBD article)

[James Bennett]

Willie

the other side of the coin that I saw at some of the sites (where large numbers of rounds are played) was the ability of the course to present to the players on the day a very, very high standard.  

The cost of additional maintenance labour (whether at $6/hr or $18/hr) in the context of the total costs of the facility are in some cases negligible.  I was impressed with the product that Pebble beach was presenting in very heavy weather (and I expect the full field of $450/game players appreciated it).  

I was also impressed with Merion East's presentation - having read the recent post about the intern's experience last summer at merion I understand a little more of why Merion is as it is.

My comment here is that all things are relative - cut your cloth according to the budget and your market's expectation - and many (not all) courses in the US have a large budget as a result.

James B

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