Monarch Bay Report

[Kevin_Reilly]

Just typed a report on today's Bay Area gathering, and then our power went out before I posted it.  I'll type it again tomorrow, but just wanted to report today how great it was to meet and play with Dan (Long Hitter) Grossman, Mike (Retief Goosen tempo) Benham, and Ed (last man to use a wooden 4 wood) Getka.  Lot of fun.

[ed_getka]

Now I know my swings sucks, when my claim to fame is using a wooden club! Seriously, I too had a great time and enjoyed meeting Kevin, Dan and Mike.

As advertised the fairways at Monarch Bay are in sad shape, apparently due to leaching up of salt out of the soil and I had an eerie feeling I was trodding over a Superfund site most of the day (made even more disturbing by Mike's propensity for using his mouth as a ballwasher ). Overall, I would rate the course a 4 on the Doak scale and at $25 to walk it is certainly one of, if not the best values in the Bay area. I will post  about the holes/features I enjoyed later after I get some sleep.

Note that the green fee special is $30 with cart, but you get $5 off for walking. How often does THAT happen?!

[THuckaby2]

Good to hear Monarch Bay still has the $$$ deals going... sad to hear the fairways continue to suffer.  Oh well, it's a fun course... I'm just quite concerned for its viability. We definitely need more courses where a discount is given for walking!

Sorry I missed you guys yesterday, I was at work till 6pm and figured you'd be long gone by the time I could swing by.

Cheers!

TH

[Kevin_Reilly]

Sorry Ed, how about Ed (controlled low linksland power game) Getka?    

It really is a shame that the fairways are so marginal there.  The soil is a mystery, but undoubtedly it is something ill-suited for turf growing.  The many references yesterday to "Superfund Site" made me nervous as well.

At least the greens and tees are first rate.  The bunker maintenance needs a little improving, though.

$25 to walk 18 in the Bay Area is pretty good, I'd say.

Tom, we were all expecting you to join us somewhere on the back nine, but it sounds like you had a full day at the office.  Sorry to hear that.

[THuckaby2]

It was my loss most definitely, Kevin!  Unfortunately I was waiting on things that just didn't happen till after 5... oh well. Next time.

And MB remains a damn good deal.  My tournament group goes there next month and even on a Sunday, with carts, with tourney fees it's only $65.  Pretty damn good deal for the Bay Area for sure.

TH

[Dan Grossman]

I constantly forget how bad the turf problems are at Monarch Bay until I actually get there.  Its too bad the place doesn't play firm and fast, as there would be lots of fun shots to play out there.

Ed - I think you hit the mark.  It is a 4 on the Doak scale.  However, unlike most golf in the Bay Area, at least it is priced like a 4!  

Thanks again to Kevin, Mike and Ed for playing yesterday.  I had lots of fun, eventhough my golf wasn't very good.   :-/

[Mike Benham]

I haven't chipped in yet (pun intended) as I have been busy this morning scouring eBay for a new driver that I can get out past Dan's 3-wood.  

As noted, the fairways were painful but the greens were firm and smooth.  We had quite a few challenging hole locations.  Coupled with the firm greens and our Yankee mentality of flying our approach shots to the hole, left us with long putss or chips from the back side of the green.

Thanks for the oppurtunity to meet/play with you guys.  We will have to do it again sometime ... somewhere ...

[ed_getka]

Mike,
 I don't know about that Yankee mentality. I was flying shots as close to the green as possible because I just didn't know if the shot would die, plug, or bounce 15 feet in the air off a hard spot. I think the course would be improved by just letting the grass die the last 30 yards to the hole so shots could be run in.

The bunkering averaged 1-3 feet deep with steep sides, so anyone afraid of sand probably hates MB. The bunkering isn't as eye catching or intimidating as some of the work at Kingsley or Barona Creek, but it performs its function. Unfortunately the maintenance guys have let a 3-4 inch rim form around the bottom of a lot of bunkers and an amazing number of balls end up on those (it certainly puts the H in hazard!), but otherwise the bunker positioning is quite good. Harbottle even put some of it IN the fairway (imagine that!). I didn't find this course to be as good as Stevinson Ranch (same archie), but holes 7-9 I thought were pretty good. #9 had a fronting bunker that was actually 30 yards short of the green that had me fooled until I was about 100 yards out. #12 was a decent par 5 with the emphasis on playing a shot into a green that goes away from you, unfortunately that one shot is diminished greatly since you couldn't count on running a ball through the minefield (oops fairway) into the green.

The main architectural devices I noted here were some greens with bunkers 20-30 yards short, at least one fall away green, a few holes with fairway bunkering in echelon in the middle of the fairway forcing you to choose a line of attack (although the one hole I'm thinking of in particular, the diagonal determined laying up with the challenge, not a carry).


Outstanding value at $25 and the greens and tees are in good shape. Maybe Dave Wilber can help MB out with their fairways. After all a sign states they have 13 native grasses out on the course if memory serves.

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I believe the turf issue was part of what gave me the conclusion it is a course that is not sure what it is. I should play hard firm and fast but does not. Still for 25 it is a great deal in a wonderful setting. I think more likely to be a 2 on the doak of it all though.

[Mike Benham]

Ed,

The Yankee mentality was made specifically for how we all played the 11th and 12th approach shots.  On 11, the hole was in the front third of the green, partially behind a bunker.  With wedges in our hands we all flew the ball hole high, and with the firm greens, ended past the pin and a few off the back of the green.  In hindsight, maybe a little 3/4 knock down that landed on the front, 15 feet right of the pin would have been a better play.

On 12, although you are correct that the soft fairways to invite a run up shot, the green is large enough and deep enough, especially with the back left hole location, to allow for a shot to land in the front third, ideally a slight draw, that would release to the back of the green.

I agree that it would be nice if the firmness of the fairways matched the firmness of the greens.  Unfortunately, I suspect that they will be keeping the fairways damp to encourage growth, and greens may get softer with the upcoming winter/rainy months.

With the soft fairways (and wind), I thought the course played longer than the card.

Mike

[Dan Grossman]

John B -

A 2?  C'mon.  Just judging the architecture, the course is at least a 4.  

The course has deep, strategically placed bunkers.  For example, on #4, a longish par 3, the front bunker coupled with the firm greens force you to think about how to attack the pin when it is in the center of the green.  Because a high straight shot at the pin is likely to either find the front bunker or bounce over the green, one starts thinking about either fading it or drawing it towards the pin and using the green's horseshoe shape.  

On the par 5, #5, if you cannot get to the green in two, you have to critically think about where you want to place your third shot.  Farther back puts you at the bottom of a valley which gives you a semi-blind approach.  If you try to place it closer to the green, you bring the deep bunkers into play and potentially put yourself in a position where it will be difficult to stop the ball near the pin.  

On #12, the par 5 has an almost redan-like green which slopes to the left and falls away from you.  A fronting bunker requires that you place your approach to the right side of the fairway to play the easiest approach.  This is a running-right to left pitch that feeds down the hill to a back left pin placement.  

There is clearly more strategy than just the above holes, but I think, that the above merits the course at least a 4.  Monarch Bay possesses a lot of the things which we like at GCA, deep 1/2 stroke penalty bunkers, green complexes which dictate ball placement in the fairway, firm greens.  However, the fairways are just awful, which take away from the strategy.  Even so, there is still a fair amount of thinking that a golfer needs to do out there.  

Mike & Ed - Incidentially, on #12, I was trying to hit the drawing pitch shot to the front of the green that released to the pin, I just hit it too hard!  

[Kevin_Reilly]

On #12 it is very difficult to turn the ball over from right to left to get it to release from the front right position to a back left pin.  The green sort of levels out in the back right, so an approach that treats the green like a redan more likely than not will run off the green on the right.  I think the hole would be more interesting if the back right side of the green were sloped more from back to front.

On number 4, that center pin position is a devil.  I was the only one that went for it (assuming of course that the direction my ball went was by design!) and I ended up in the front bunker.  But as I recall we all walked away with pars on that one...more than one way to skin a cat!

[Dan Grossman]

Kevin -

You are right in the sense that you can't bank the ball on #12.  It has to be moving right to left.  Although, if you get far enough right in the fairway (over by where I was), you don't need to hook the ball to get at the pin.  

[ed_getka]

#12...  in the fairway... right to left approach shot.... aha, now I see why I had such a problem after driving left into the rough, flying the green, and hitting a lame pitch shot to try and save par . I agree that John B. is way off base rating MB a 2 on the Doak scale. NorCal guys weigh in please with your opinion, or anyone else who has played the course. John B., why is it a 2 (other than that is how many nines the course has )

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Ed it is a 8 on view but it is a 2 or 3 at most on architecture and design much lrts maintenance. i enjoyed my day with huck and Dan K alot but the facts are the facts. It is a very average course with a great view. Heck Lincoln Park is the same. But a great view is alot. I would rather play a 2 great view than a 5 poor view.

[THuckaby2]

I just played Monarch Bay again this past Sunday... they are working hard on the maintenance issues and have re-sodded several entire fairways in what sure appears to be papsalum (sp.?)... an interesting surface most definitely...plays kinda spongy and gobbles the ball up... it's gonna live against the bay and be able to take in that salt, and it looks neat, but firm and fast is dead forever in the fairways... contrasting this are the greens, which are WONDERFUL!  Very firm, very fast, perfect condition.  But damn... before too long all the approaches are gonna be this sponge-grass, so you'll have the impossible situation of not being able to bounce the ball up to very firm greens which require such!  It's gonna be interesting to see how it goes.

As for "rating" the course, I don't have the Doak scale committed to memory like everyone else here - what does a "2" mean?  I'd say this course is worth playing if you are in the area, for the view and the deep steep-sided bunkers alone... it's also nearly always a very good value... but you certainly wouldn't skip one of our better courses to play Monarch Bay.  Whatever that makes it on the Doak scale, that's what it is!

TH

[ed_getka]

John,
 I ascribe no points to a course based on its scenic qualities. A Doak 2 is mediocre golf course with little architectural interest, but nothing really horrible ("Play it in a scramble and drink a lot of beer").

A Doak 4 = modestly interesting; with at least a couple of distinctive holes or some scenic interest.

I think Harbottle did much better work at Stevinson Ranch, but Monarch isn't a 2. I think you are playing too many good courses and haven't seen enough dogtracks lately (wink, wink).

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Ed, there is some merit to that comment.  When I am in the bay area, I am very fortunate to be able to play such great courses. I hate to say i am stuck on 2. I would not argue over a 4 either. It is archtectually no better or worse than so many public courses in this part of the world that could not get a 2nd comment on here. I do give it a big wow for view though. And Yes I would play it again in a second with friends. No, I would probably not play it alone unless there was no other option.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Tom, sorry to hear about the new grass.  THat is definitely a pity.  That course needs to play firm and fast, just like the greens.  Oh well, I'm sure they consulted with some turf experts before they waved the white flag and went with this new turf.