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Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internal OB
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2006, 12:13:52 PM »
Tom,
I think playing up 13 would be come the only option for long hitters.  It shortens the hole as well as giving a clear view or the green.  Now if you go right, challenge the OOB you have a shorter shot but it is blind due to the second large dune.  If you play more down the left you have longer shot but can see the flag.  
I too don't like internal OOB.

It would be interesting to see how it played from  an old tee that is slightly back and elevated and right of the current tee.  You can see the rock bulkhead that is overgrown with iceplant.  One of the old timers told me it was a tee at one time

Tom Huckaby

Re:Internal OB
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2006, 12:18:43 PM »
Stan - but wouldn't it take a very very long hit up 13 to get to where you're clear of the trees?

If it is easily doable, then you might have convinced me of the worth of the I-OB.  I still won't like it, but I won't see it as such a negative.

I just need more convincing that such route is doable, let alone preferable, for all that many golfers.   ;)

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internal OB
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2006, 12:20:58 PM »
Tom,
I don't think so.  Even weak hitting me has hit one over there with a good line of sight to green and well awaay from the trees.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Internal OB
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2006, 12:26:12 PM »
Stan - aha - no stickler for the local rule be ye, eh?

 ;D ;D

Not to belabor this, but wouldn't you have to go so far right - damn near into 14 fairway - to make that happen, such that the distance gain would be negated?

I'm not saying it can't be done - I'm asking if it's a preferable route.

But you have me leaning toward becoming "neutral" on this, anyway.

TH

A_Clay_Man

Re:Internal OB
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2006, 01:32:51 PM »
Boy oh boy what a brain fart/ Thanx for the correction re 5&6  Stan.

Huckster, As Stan mentioned the original teeing ground was closer to 11 green than it is now. That puts the dune behind 13 very close to the line of sight straight out to the Pacific. Now, Anyone who wanted to challenge that blindness would've been rewarded with the shorter shot in, playing up the wrong hole. Now, let me say I am with you. I loathe infernal's but I do rationalize this one as less infernal. First off, the OB does end at a point before the end of the 12th hole. It is approx. 100 yards out on 12, where the ob ceases in the 13th fairway. I know if there were a five club wind, from the south, I might try it. Surely, when one is too far right, in the dunes or near one of those trees, playing up the 13th, on their second, is prudent. It's also not that dangerous because it is so obviously dangerous noone would try to play that way, without first warning anyone ahead, or waiting for them to get closer to the 13th green. Similar situation when driving on 15 and 16 because of the shared fairway. If someone is there, you are cognizant of them and hopefully they are aware of you, too. Now, the reason the infernal works so well on 12, IMO, is the nature of the ground that comprises the 12th fairway. Those humps bumps and rolls, that the OB virtually forces every player to encounter, because of the OB, are too marvelous for words as GC features. Also,The sporadic maintenance near and around these features creates unpredictable lies, that are the definition of rub. Good and bad. I don't think any other hole, or an area of a hole, has taught me more about GCA, myself, and, my GC management. On the subject of the puckerability the OB elicits, in the mind of the golfer, under tournament conditions, is real and relatively unique for a modern design. 1960 is when Neville built her, so she qualifies as modern. But clearly that is her only resemblance to any modern courses I have played (outside of Wild Horse, SH, and soon to be.... ;D HOME.

 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2006, 01:41:13 PM by Adam Clayman »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Internal OB
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2006, 01:43:12 PM »
Adam:

Great stuff.  I just do continue to look at #12, probably the most wonderful hole on a very wonderful golf course, and wish it didn't have this blemish.

But you - and Stan - have taught me a valuable lesson here:  the blemish is indeed part of the hole's uniqueness, and greatness.

So this one is less infernal.  Very well stated, very well said.

And excellent reference as well... PG does feel "old", or "traditional" to me as well... even if it does count as modern.  Just part of the greatness.

Which of course the new modern clubhouse takes away a bit... but I don't want to get you started.

 ;D

« Last Edit: May 04, 2006, 01:43:25 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internal OB
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2006, 02:06:16 PM »
No Tom I was OOb and played it as such.  Though I do not like the infernal.  I am a bit of stickler on the rules.

Tom Huckaby

Re:Internal OB
« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2006, 02:59:09 PM »
No Tom I was OOb and played it as such.  Though I do not like the infernal.  I am a bit of stickler on the rules.

Aha!  So you just noted what a nice shot in you had, didn't actually play the shot.

My humble apologies.

 ;D