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Ryan Farrow

at some times you do feel like you are in a 3rd world country.

Ryan, Mexico "a third world country?"  ::)  It appears that Puerto Penasco must be pretty prosperous with high employment, but take a taxi from the Acapulco airport out to the resort hotels some time.  Mexico is indeed a third world country.  If it were more prosperous top to bottom, there wouldn't be such a hullabaloo about illegal immigration.

Looking forward to seeing Forrest's course down there.



Well, compared to most peoples experiences with mexican vacation spots. Rocky Point is by far the most personal with the poverty issue.

Forrest Richardson

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The paspalum was terrific providing it had water. We had some challenges with water delivery last summer and that put us back in schedule. All turf likes water when it is 90+ degrees!

Yes. I have loads of stories. Nothing too corrupt. At least not by the government. The authorities were all mostly great to us. The corruption was self-induced and came in multiple bottles, each about the same size.

The stone walls form the green at No. 11, a par-3. We call the hole "Temple". The concept was to create a setting within the lagoon area that made as much sense of possible. Since we had to have lagoons, we figured they would look best if not forced to appear as "natural" waterways. They all come together at this large pumphouse building (also stone) and we formed the 90º walls off the building's foundation. Water cascades over a trought around the edges. From the air it looks like Texas....which was a coincidence. I would never make a green in the shape of Texas...knowingly.

Raynor? No. Perhaps Muirhead on that hole. Or, Dye at the 18th of The Golf Club.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 11:38:12 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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paul cowley

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congratulations mi amigo!
....and now that I have finished payment on your book do you think I might be able to bring a group to play?
....do you allow play in skirts or kilts? [I won't require clubs as I have found I can best appreciate a course by making air swings while adding various 'whoosh' sounds to match my intended balls flight].....maybe you could even join us?

p :)ul
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Forrest Richardson

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Kilts...yes. Skirts...only on even numbered days when it rains*. ;D

*1.5-inches per year in this part of Sonora.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2006, 08:17:44 PM »
I said I would post some photos...and here are a few. These were taken last week by Keith Alstrin, a great chap.











 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 08:31:21 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2006, 09:46:26 PM »
Forrest....looks like you made the photographers job an easy one.
Still hope to get there soon.... :)
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

ed_getka

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2006, 09:53:32 PM »
Nicely done Forrest. I agree with Thomas of Huckaby, it looks like a great future King's Putter site.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2006, 09:54:20 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Craig Sweet

  • Total Karma: -2
Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2006, 09:38:42 AM »
Forrest, it looks pretty sick!

I love that last photo...great looking green and surrounds....

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2006, 11:27:17 AM »
Paul — Call me for reservations. ;)

Ed — I am not sure there is enough tequila in Peñasco!

Craig — I will take "sick" as good. The 15th green was an experiment. It is comprised of four pads that stack together. In the photo I posted the pin is at the top pad. Not a good place to drift a short right because the putt back up is troublesome.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 11:27:41 AM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2006, 12:24:35 PM »
......I can understand the paspalum [the green looking stuff] but, would you care to share with us how many millions of yards of earth you moved to create all those neat land forms?...and I'm sure the cost of bringing in all that really natural desert looking material must have been a monumental task as well.

...only in meheeco ;)....
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Tom_Doak

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2006, 12:38:46 PM »
Forrest:  The most interesting looking feature in the pictures for me are the two small islands of dune/native vegetation inside the fairway in the first picture.  I would have thought it would look silly and out of scale to leave such a small bit of native inside the fairway, but it looks great.  Did you do that throughout the course?  And how much in play are these features?  Are they 150 off the tee or right in the landing area sometimes?  They are way more scary than a bunker!

ed_getka

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2006, 12:41:30 PM »
Forrest,
   I assume #15 is the last picture. Could you explain the stack four pads part?
   Could you go through the four pix and describe what each hole is doing and how you envision them being played?
   It is refreshing to see that a course is being built south of the border that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to play.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 12:42:37 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

paul cowley

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2006, 12:56:42 PM »
Forrest....I agree with Tom per the internal natives.
...it appears you are not using part circles on edges, but throwing irrigation water out.....could I recieve confirmation of this please?
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2006, 01:12:41 PM »
The first picture is No. 8, 440-yards. It is usually downwind, but occasionally there is a headwind coming from America. The better approach is from the right, but this requires negotiation of the bunkers and dunes. The left opens up, but descends by 15-feet. From the left you are headed well up (25+ feet) to the green and the dune pimple comes into play. From the right you are on higher ground and usually do not have so much of the dune pimple to contend with.

Tom — We left about 5-6 of the small dunes, but the tiny one at No. 8 is the smallest. Tim Taynor, my shaper on this work decided to save about a dozen extra dunes on No. 8 — probably because I kept painting so many when we staked the hole. When I got there the following week it looked like someone had forgotten to clear the fairway...but I appreciate his delicate hand. He and I both decided that there was something interesting about the tiny dune at the green. Also, because we had wall-to-wall SeaDwarf Paspalum, we opened the green up behind it and have now mowed an area as a tiny "extra" green, although it is connected.

A mother dog had her four puppies behind the green. She still lives in a great rabbit hole. Here she is wondering what we are up to.




---

Second photo is No. 4, 140-yards. The tee shot is into a notch (This photo is taken right of the notch...at about 20-yards from the green.) You cannot see any of the putting surface except when you walk up behind the back tee. A pin right is in a punchbowl. A pin left is hidden mostly by the dune forming the notch. The small pot at the sleeper wall needs to be deeper...but we have had loads of blowing sand up until March. The sleeper wall holds back the natural dune that we etched a bit to form the green. It really is a matter of getting comfortable with your distance at No. 4 — and getting a hold on the wind. Because the hole is  buffered by the dune, the tee can seem very calm.

---

Third photo is No. 5, 400-yards. This shot is from the forward tee, which is right of the main tee alignments. There are two dunes with some turf in between. The second dune requires a 250-yard carry — usually into the wind. From the regular tees it is usually no problem to carry both dunes. It really looks more intimidating that the tee shot amounts to in reality. There is lots of room left and right, but any choice besides straight adds to the distance and sets up an approach that can be blind or partially blind.

---

No. 15 (last photo) is 200-yards. (Photo is from the tee, about 35-foot drop shot. The tees behind are No. 9.) It is always fighting a cross wind. The four pads set into the slope and were created so we could form a green in this area. we simply took the sand that was there and flattened it in place. The result was a green with four flat-ish levels. The pin is on the upper level in the photo. There is another front, one back/right and one below to the far-right. we have had a lot of problems with this green due to blowing sand during building and, now, mowing practices that require careful hand work. I am working on getting the harsher ridges to soften — but not at the expense of losing the definition between levels. It is a crazy green. I putted from well right and hit my hickory about as hard as I could. I was 10-feet short on the 15-foot up-hill putt!

« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 01:22:16 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2006, 04:16:46 PM »
....very interesting.....and when you get around to answering my other question maybe you might also reveal your type of greens construction....it seems to me that with using only one grass variety and if the soil conditions allowed for more of a 'pushup' type of green, then your ability to change the shape and extent of an individual green would be fraught with great freedom.

I am staring at this machine awaiting your response [but I do have the Open on in the background].
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

ed_getka

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2006, 04:18:23 PM »
Forrest,
   On #5 what is going on up at the green end?

Thanks for taking the time to talk about the course. 8)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 04:19:34 PM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mark_Fine

  • Total Karma: -2
Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2006, 04:39:27 PM »
Great photos Forrest!  Isn't it good to see that Forrest practices what he preaches when it comes to making some of his hazards real "hazards"  ;)  

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2006, 04:45:16 PM »
Paul — We moved 500m cubic meters...but hardly any on the photos I posted. All of the earthwork was to construct 14 acres of lagoons for water storage and to hog out the range, which sits at the far end of the site. We moved dunes plants (those are all natural) with a tree spade, by hand and we also got decent re-growth when we began opening heads along the perimeter. It is mostly a system with half heads at the edges...but with so much wind it acts more like a full circle system at the edges. And, as noted, we open up heads so cut down on blowing sand. (Sand is not always your friend!)

It is 100% sand...so there is no "greens construction" per se. We just tweaked the natural terrain and planted grass. I wish we had installed a trace wire to find the original designed perimeterers of the greens...but it has become interesting to see them morf...(sort of interesting...)

Tom — The first dune pop-out at No. 5 is about 220 from the tee. The bunkers are at around 240-250. No. 6 (below) has the most. We left three throughout the fairway to green. I agree — they are not only more scary, but you can lose a ball every once in a while!



Ed — No. 5 rises to a secluded green site with a fall off to the left and a massive dune at the back. You can make out the long sand fence we installed across the back of the green. Some of this is nearly buried by now. The green is at a diagonal. It is large and has some opposing breaks. You generally cannot see the surface from your fairway position...unless you are Matt Ward and there is no wind!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 04:49:51 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2006, 05:01:00 PM »
Mark deserves a bit of credit...the last few holes were being shaped when we were putting the finishing edits on Bunkers, Pits & Other Hazards. His continual edits about fairness and hazards probably wore me down!

I guess those dune pimples can be considered "other hazards", huh?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2006, 05:01:37 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

ed_getka

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2006, 09:50:36 PM »
Love those dune pimples. A new golf term, is that in the glossary of the book? :)
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Rick Shefchik

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #45 on: June 17, 2006, 10:38:45 PM »
For those concerned about the remoteness of Rocky Point, I drove down there from Tucson with my wife and kids three years ago when our daughter was visiting the University of Arizona. We wanted to see Mexico and we wanted to see the ocean, so we took a day trip.

It takes about three hours, much of it on two-lane roads. The narrow, winding road that leads to the border from Tucson is dotted with crosses/shrines to people who died there, possibly driving drunk at night -- not a good idea on that road -- or possibly illegal immigrants who died of heat or thirst in that extremely desolate area. The border patrol vehicles are a constant presence on that road.

South of the border, there's nothing to look at until you reach the ocean. Rocky Point itself, three years ago, was a lightly-developed ocean bay surrounded by desert. The town looked incredibly poor; tourists seemed to gravitate to the resort just west of town with a nice private beach.

Given what I've read on this thread, I'd think the roads will be widened and improved soon, and the town will gradually become more attractive, with less poverty -- the Cabo model seems like a good comparison.

And given what I've seen of Forrest's course, I'd make the drive from Tucson right now. Our daughter graduates from UA this December -- that seems like a good time to check out the Links at Las Palomas.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2006, 12:07:17 AM »
Rick — The route from Tucson is much more intricate than from Phoenix.

In comparison, Cancun has about 20,000 condo units now. In about 5 years Peñasco (Rocky Point) will have more condos.

I am not sure that is good — or bad. What I can report is that the economy in Peñasco has never been better. Local residents are fixing their homes, shopping and enjoying the wake-up of their sleepy village. The good news is that the old port will remain quaint and — somewhat sleepy.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2006, 12:08:20 AM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2006, 08:18:52 PM »
In answer to the question, the summer green fee is $40 until the end of Septmeber. This was just announced this afternoon.

— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2006, 05:48:18 AM »
I'm still coming Forrest....but getting the group together is similar to that commercial where cowboys are herding very small felines.....30,000 ppm, that I have to see [did I get that right?].....I mean I want to see the course of course, because you can't really see the 30,000......you know what I mean, right? :).

...hope the rain parts for you and yours.
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Forrest Richardson

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Re:The Links at Las Palomas, Rocky Point, Mexico by Forrest Richardson
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2006, 10:32:57 AM »
If I read the forecast correctly...DC is expected to dry out just in time for our visit...and then New England will part the Red Sea for us as well.

— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
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