"Volcano" green

[henrye]

I returned to Las Hadas in Mexico last week for a vacation with the family.  At the hotel they have a golf course designed by Roy Dye sometime in the '70s.  The course is in pretty rough shape and has fallen into disrepair.  While I'm no advocate of "Augusta" type maintenance practices, this course needs to do something.  The course is on very flat land and as such there was a lot of earth movement to create elevation and water hazards.

The 10th green was one of the most unusual I have seen.  The green is elevated about 9 feet above the surrounding terrain and looks like a volcano.  The slope of the "volcano" is almost completely made up of bunkers, which essentially creates an outer ring around the green.  The only shot option is in the air, much like an island green, but in this case, the surface of the green is completely blind due to its elevation.

Anyone else seen a green a like this?

I have a photo, but have no idea how to post it.

[peter_p]

William Flynn's USNA Golf Course in Annapolis has one, I believe the 17th. Probably about 125 yards and a slight drop shot.

[henrye]

The 10th at Las Hadas is at the end of a 350-yard par 4 slight dogleg  left.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Henry,

I'd describe the 4th at Stanley Thompson's Highlands Links as a "volcano" type green.

Have you seen it? If so, is it comparable?

[redanman]

Two quickly come to mind:

Shennecossett #4 210 yds or so, if there's a better one, I can't wait to play it.

Doral's Great White by Norman, #5, 6, 7 something like that, only 150ish, but very narrow, very tough, pretty darned good.

[Tom_Doak]

The 13th at Piping Rock could be desribed as a "volcano" green although I think Macdonald called it a "knoll" hole.

A friend of mine told me he took the idea from the fourth hole at Scotscraig, which is just on the south side of the river from Dundee, a few miles from St. Andrews.  I've never gone over there to check on it, but my friend grew up there and I'll believe him.

[John_Lovito]

I believe the 6th hole at Olympia Fields South Course is a Volcano green.  Great hole.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

I believe the 6th hole at Olympia Fields South Course is a Volcano green.  Great hole.  

Yes, it is.  Here it is from the approach:


and from the right side (steep!):



Another Volcano hole is the par 3 4th at Wilmington Muni.  May not look too imposing from the tee:


but it is really quite high off the ground! (from 30 yards short):


one I haven't seen is the par 3 6th at Roaring Gap:


of course, the REAL Volcano hole is the one (Ryan Moore?)
the Tour Pros are playing in that new commercial at the base of Mt. St. Helens.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

According to Las Brisas' website, the 10th hole is named "Mount Suribachi."

• Hole #10,“Mount Suribachi”, par 4, 347 yds., hcp. 8.
Being a narrow fairway, your tee off needs to be precise and your second hit towards the green needs to be elevated. This one finds itself surrounded by 4 sand tramps, therefore making it a flat and very small green which dares you for a challenging play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Henry E,

I think some stretch their interpretation of what constitutes a "volcano" green.

Shouldn't the view from the angle of approach replicate a volcano rising above the golfer ?

The 4th hole at The Medalist used to have a sensational volcano green.

P.S.   What is "Augusta Type Maintainance"  ?
 
        Have you ever seen the golf course for the great
        majority of its season, outside of the period of March
        15th to April 15th ?

[RJ_Daley]

Hows this?  I've always called this 3rd hole green site at Quik Qui Oc, in Elkhart Lake WI, a Knoll hole.  But, it can be your volcano too.


There is another one similar to this on the back 9.  Quic Qui Oc is a Tom Bendelow design from about 1906-8.  

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Henry's photo

[henrye]

Ben.  Thanks for posting the photo.  Sorry I didn't take it from further back.

I like the examples of the other photos, but the difference with this green at Las Hadas is that the bunkers completely surround it.  I've never seen anything like it before, but I wish I had taken a better photo.  Also, the greens in the examples look like they fit the contours of the local landscape.  This one is a completely manufactured hill surrounded by flat terrain.

Pat.  I have used the term "Augusta type maintenance" as a metaphor for an overly green multi-million dollar maintenance budget.  Also, in this case the green is similar regardless of the angle of approach.  It's a round shaped green sitting atop a hill, completely surrounded by bunkers.

[Jim_Kennedy]

HenryE,
Here's a thread from Oct, '02 that has more information on Volcano holes. Hope it helps.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=2491;start=msg48959#msg48959      

[Stuart Hallett]

Seems to be popular as a short par 4 10th hole.
Coincidence, or did the model hole share the same characteristics ?

Photo, 10# St-Germain, par 4 337m. The longer you hit your drive, the less you see. Green is a subtle punchbowl/crater with an effective swale on the left.

Couldn't find a close up, but this gives you some idea, green is 3m+ above fairway.

[henrye]

Stuart.  From the picture, that is the closest match I have ever seen.  I wonder if Las Hadas is a copy of what you have found.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Patrick,
Your definiton sounds like the 13th at the Equinox course in Vt. That greensite sits a good 30' above the fairway and is guarded on the left by a nasty bunker. Another similar hole is the 9th at Pontoosuc Lake in Pittsfield Ma. This greensite, some 40' or so above the golfer, is guarded by large knobs growing out of the hillside. Both holes are par 4s.

It seems like there should be some way to differentiate a Volcano greensite from one that is merely 'raised'.

[ChipOat]

There's a par 5 at Teeth Of The Dog (2nd, 3rd or 4th hole?) that has a seriouslt elevated green; couldn't see more than the very top of the flagstick from 50 yards as I recall.

Can't ever recall a more "volcano" green than that although the 5th green at Dornoch is pretty seriously elevated from the fairway level.  Built more into the side of the hill, though.

Although you're not supposed to play the 8th at National from just in front of the green, a back flagstick is invisible from the bottom of the swale just before the bunkers.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Patrick,
Your definiton sounds like the 13th at the Equinox course in Vt. That greensite sits a good 30' above the fairway and is guarded on the left by a nasty bunker. Another similar hole is the 9th at Pontoosuc Lake in Pittsfield Ma. This greensite, some 40' or so above the golfer, is guarded by large knobs growing out of the hillside. Both holes are par 4s.

It seems like there should be some way to differentiate a Volcano greensite from one that is merely 'raised'.

Agreed.

Some would claim that the 13th and 15th at WFE would be volcano greens.

One must differentiate between a green that sits on a knoll, or is raised, versus one that rises up, and sits atop an earthenwork like a volcano, before the golfer.

Certainly, a downhill shot to any green disqualifies that green from being a "volcano" green.[/color]

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
I think there should be at least one immutable feature that describes a hole type, along with a couple others that can be interchangeable. For instance, both greensites on the two holes I mentioned don't stand alone, they back back into hillsides. Both of their fronting slopes are very steep making for an abrupt transition from the fairway, and both greensites are very high above the fairway. I think they fit the volcano mold.

Defining holes reminds me of a '79 trip to Fla I took with my then wife-to-be in our two-door, black and white, 1954 Chevy BelAir. We drove on back country roads (shades of Robert Mitchum) all the way there and at just about every place we stopped someone would come up and say: "Ya know, I used to have a car just like that. 'Course, she had four doors, blue paint, and she was a Buick, but dang, she was just like this one".

[Forrest Richardson]

Greg Nash created a terrific version at Superstition Springs GC in Mesa, AZ. The green is about 20-ft. high and the shott is trsight uphill to a volcano feature with a bowl at the top.

[Jim_Kennedy]

TomDoak,
Here's a photo of the 4th at Scotscraig, described as: "The most memorable hole is the Par 4, 4th, only 366 yards, but with the fairway well protected on the left by large revetted bunkers and a heathery terrain awaiting wayward shots to the right, only well positioned shots will be able to attack this small plateau green.



The website says it's the 13th oldest golf club in the world and that they host (since 1984) the final qualifier when The Open is played at TOC. It also mentions another connection to St Andrews, the club was founded and laid out by members of the St Andrews Society of Golfers, w/a redesign by James Braid in 1923.
Wow, it's only 7:30am and I've already learned something new, I'm taking the rest of the day off.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
This seems to be a good example and fits your definition. It's at Eagle Springs resort in Wisconsin.


The underlying landform upon which the hole sits is called a 'drumlin', an area formed by glacial action. Here's one that would make for an interesting Volcano hole.