Fresh Meadow CC, Manhasset, NY

[Doug Braunsdorf]

In looking at aerials of several Nassau County courses aerlier tonight, I was surprised at the architectural detail of Fresh Meadow CC, specifically the bunkering and the routing.  

Firstly, I know this is not the original course; the original Fresh Meadow was Tillinghast, and hosted a PGA, won by Gene Sarazen.  The course is NLE and was located just south of today's LIE, near the Fresh Meadow Cinema.  

Phil Young, could you tell us anything about the original course?  Was it notable among Tillinghast designs, and specifically, where do you think it would have stacked up against some of his other notable NY courses, mainly Winged Foot East and West, Bethpage Red and Black, Fenway, Old Oaks?

I seem to recall reading somewhere--and may be mistaken--that the current Fresh Meadow is an Alison design.  

Now, on to the current course-

Has anyone here played it?  Jason Blasberg?  Mike Sweeney?  Geoff Childs?  (to name some local guys)

Greens, from the aerial, appear to be well bunkered.  The fairway bunkering appears relatively tame--more parallel with the line of play rather than dictating the line of play.  

If this is Alison, I am not familiar with many of his courses or the strategies he employed in architecture.  

I appreciate all relevant information about this course.  

DRB

[Wayne Freeman]

Doug-  I don't know anything about the existing course, but the original Fresh Meadow hosted the 1932 U.S. Open tournament won by it's then head pro Gene Sarazen. In 1946 the members were apparently pressured by the mortgage holders and sold the club to a developer who built a shopping center and apartment complex.  They bought the Lakeville Club, 10 miles away and moved to this new location.
  P.S.  Fresh Meadow and Englewood (1909 Open) are the only Open courses completely gone.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

  Your right its not the original, however ever a great course with some nice green complexes kept at at a good speen on the stimp, definitly a hidden secret on Long Island.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I usually play there in a couple pro-ams every year.  It might have the best set of par 3's west of Shinny on Long Island.  The par 5's might be in the same category.  They are currently doing some restoration work. It has also been lengthened the past couple of years.  It is a fairly tough test.  Occassionally, good scores are shot, but overall it usually beats up the best players.  It is also a very hilly layout, more on par with Westchester courses.  Anywhere but in metro-NY it would warrent serious discussion about how well it plays.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug,

I'd agree with RMD, the topography provides for an interesting array of holes.

Hi-tech has taken a bite out of the difficulty, but, it remains an interesting and enjoyable challenge.

It has 5 par 3's of varying length, three good par 5's and a wide range of par 4's.

It's worth playing.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

How are the existing hills used to route holes?  If I recall correctly, Lakeville Rd is basically a long, flat hill coming from N-S off the Expressway.  

I'm not 100% certain, but from the aerial, it appears that the architect is using the hill in a variety of different ways--routing roles in various directions in relation to the existing hills.  Is this true?  

Whom is doing the restoration here?  

[mark chalfant]

Doug:
# 1,2,3, and 10  all drop and  ascend the same ridge, at
different angles. As others mentioned, 2 and 10 are excellent par fives with wavy fairways and good greensites.Charles Hugh Alison designed the course . I believe that Tripp Davis may be working on the course, but I am not sure if its actua
lly a "restoration." The bunkering placement is interesting but when I last played Fresh Meadow the greens were subdued/ not exceptional. Worth playing and a pretty clubhouse

[Craig Disher]

Doug,
Dan Wexler's Missing Links has a chapter on the original Fresh Meadows. Dan says that the course would have aged well since it had plenty of room for expansion. I've seen aerials of it and agree completely.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Because of technology, the 8th, 9th, 17th, and 18th holes are maxed out--boundary fence and clubhouse.  17 tee could be moved back into the driving range for length, but that would not go well with the membership.  The club was close to purchasing or leasing the property behind the 9th and 18th tees (the holes are parallel, but actually quite different), but I am not sure if this was finalized.  Tripp Davis would know.  Due to clubhouse expansion, he tweaked the 18th green to look as though there had been no change.  I thought it was awesome--I did not notice the missing 5-6 yards of green.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug,

The course nosedives on # 10 and # 11, then mostly regains the elevation on # 14 with the balance of the return to elevation on the remaining holes as they weave back and forth up the remainder of the hill.

It's fun to play.