Best New for '05 ?

[Jay Flemma]

For those of you that care, I gave out year end awards on my website (click my profile) and voted for Lakota Canyon Ranch for best new public and The Club at Pradera for best new private.   I also thought Mike Strantz should have been at least recognized for his redesign at Monterey Peninsula CC Shore Course.

I really think GD's criteria are too touchy feely and place double emphasis on a term too many people can't or won't define - "shot values."

I try to keep it simple.  1/3 Strategy/design + 1/3 natural setting + 1/3 a combination of conditioning, walkability, facilities and intangibles thrown in to boot.

Jay

[Matt_Ward]

Jay:

I can't disagree with your choices but would like to know if you are native to Colorado?

I have had the opportunity to have played about a dozen of Jim Engh designs and frankly how the two candidates you mentioned did not finish higher (Lakota) or be rated at all (Pradera) makes me shake my head because they represent some of his finest work to date and that includes the likes of other past awardees like Sanctuary, Redlands Mesa, Black Rock, etc, etc.

The "fun" element is alive and well with both courses and it demonstrates for me how much the bar for quality golf has risen in Colorado in the last several years and clearly Engh, along with others, has played such a role.

One last thought -- the only rating element you cited that I would disagree with is your heavy emphasis on conditioning, walking, facilities and other intangibles. I don't deny their importance but not on par with the first two you outlined.

[Jay Flemma]

Hey Matt:

No, I'm from NYC, but in working on a book I'm writing (a survey of which top 100 public courses are really worth the $$ they charge)  I did an "Engh tour +" this summer, playing 4 of his publics, sanctuary and pradera, along w/ arrowhead and Castle pines...steak dinners all the way.

Also, on my rating syatem, the conditioning itself comes out to between 5-10% total...the last "1/3" figure is really more like 30% and is a mishmash of four or five things...maybe its a bit high, but most raters and writers dont give strategy/routing/architectural echo (the ability to resurrect old classic solid holes and designs like biarritzes and redans and alternating shot values and make them relevant in your new deisgns) anywhere NEAR enough weight.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Jay

I don't think Pradera was eligible for GD's 2005. I played there in August and it opened in June.

Matt

Rochelle Ranch in Rawlins,WY was eligible for GD's 2005 and came very close to the Top 10.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Have to correct you on this idea that Pradera opened in June. The official opening ceremonies took place in mid-May -- I know because I was supposed to play with Jim Engh but I had to play a day or two earlier (thanks heavens because the weather was grand then!).

There's no reason for Pradera to be bumped into the '06 calendar -- plenty of time existed for people to see the course this past season.

One other thing / re: Rochelle Ranch. The course got hosed and should have easily made the top five affordable list. I played a fair sampling of the courses chosen for the top ten and none reached the level of sophistication that Ken Kavanaugh demonstrated with his Rawlins, WY success.

The layout did have some serious turf issues in isolated areas but the sheer bulk of the course was more than able to demonstrate its design qualities. People continually gush on and on about Wild Horse and I concur with such thoughts but Rochelle Ranch goes one step beyond Wild Horse and when all the turf issues are resolved it will clearly be seen for what it is.

When I see a course like Solider Hollow (UT) reach the top ten on an empty design that foolishly wasted such a spectacular site I have to once again conclude that Digest raters are guided by their eye and rarely, if ever, look beyond the most obvious elements when making a course visit.

[Mike_Cirba]

I haven't played the Alotian Club but if it's better than Boston Golf Club I'll do unnatural acts in the parking lot.

[Jason Blasberg]

Mike:

I reckon I'll join ya'll in that . . .

[Matt_Ward]

I would hope that given the awareness of The Alotian Club that someone who has played it would provide their own comments.

[wsmorrison]

"I haven't played the Alotian Club but if it's better than Boston Golf Club I'll do unnatural acts in the parking lot."

I'm trying to supress my imagination because it sure wouldn't be a pretty sight  

From the photographs of AC, I don't think you'll need to worry about doing unnatural acts.  If/when Matt criticizes me for sitting on my couch (I'm at my keyboard you looney tunes) I don't care.  Those photos are pretty nasty.

[A_Clay_Man]

I would hope that given the awareness of The Alotian Club that someone who has played it would provide their own comments.

It has a level of awareness?

If I undestand what you meant, maybe no one has given us a review, proves it is not on anyones radar.

I never heard of the place til a few threads ago, But then again, I dont do any heavy liffffffting.

[Matt_Ward]

One of the surprises I saw with this year's listing is the Tom Watson effort at Reunion in Orlando, FL.

It is well done and part of a 36-hole complex with a very forgettable Arnold Palmer design. The Watson layout is one of the best tracks I have played in central Florida and although it's clearly man-made there's plenty of unique twists and turns throughout the 18 holes.

I would strongly advise anyone heading to this year's PGA Show in Orlando to check it out.

[PThomas]

Watson's course is one I surely want to see...some of those pictures of it make it look overly manufactured, but I've read more than one good review of it