[Bob_Huntley]

See"

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.aspx?page=15100&dv=8095056&select=18129

[Philip Gawith]

The Australian's seem to have a bad track record in getting the set-ups over the top. Has it not happened a few times in recent years?

Wasn't there also a recent post in which Peter Thompson was quoted saying that he thought the greens for this tournament would not stimp too fast (9.5??), with others saying that the pro's would find it difficult to putt on such slow greens. Wires crossed somewhere?

[Phil_the_Author]

Bob & Philip,

I hate to disagree with you guys, but it appears the two championships and the controversies that attend them are not alike.

First of all, the problem at the Australian appears limited to one hole, and due to a very local weather effect on that hole alone, while the green speed problems at Shinnecock, though magnified on that wonderful par-three, were felt throughout the course. Note what Australian Golf Union chief Colin Phillips said, "A northerly wind through the gully at the hole had made putting above the pin difficult and the decision was made to lightly water the surface."

Far different from the situation at Shinnecock.

In addition, the article you cited was poorly researched and incorrect in other parts. It stated that, "Stephen Leaney refused to sign his card for a 74 in protest and was disqualified."

That is not what happened. Concerning this sitaution, on the web-site for the Australian Open, they quote Leaney himself:

"Playing partner Stephen Leaney was still distracted by the incident while he was checking his card at the end of his round.

"The West Australian left the scorer's hut without signing the card and was disqualified, but denied he had refused to sign it.

"I forgot, I was upset at what had happened to Peter O'Malley and just didn't realise I hadn't signed it," Leaney said."

[Bob_Huntley]

Philip,

Gosh, it was on the Golf Channel, it has to be true!

Thanks for the correction, as always, we all need to be more cicumspect when quoting from the popular press.

Bob

[Phil_the_Author]

Bob,

The problem now is how to know which report is the correct one? The reason I favor the one from the web-site is because it is the one that has the player's direct quote refuting it. But what if it hadn't? What if it was written in the manner of the other article where it only stated a happening rather than quoting from those involved?

I also forgot to add in another difference to the article written ,a dn presumably to the report on the Golf Channel if they are in agreement that it is comparable to the Shinnecock Open.

After two days, there are 27 players at par or better! That has to represent close to 40% of those who made the cut. That alone shows that it is not a bad set-up and that the problem with the green is singular and not course-wide.

Again, in my opinion, here is a writer (and possibly television) making a story rather than reporting one.

[Big Pete]

Philip
I just don't agree
The 12th green is an upturned saucer which is difficult to stay on when the green is slow . When these firm exposed links greens become faster they become very difficult .
My son played in the open and the greens were 11.5 on the stint on Monday when they lost their pump stations , so they have been fighting to get them reasonable since then....
In round one Tim hit the green safely , but when he got to the green the ball had blown off and back down the hill!
The pin position on day 2 was in a very difficult sloping spot at the front of the green and any wind was going to make it a problem . To safely hit the green and stay on you needed to be well past the flag , and then putt back down to the pin . Apparently Stephen Leaney forgot to sign his card , but he was reminded by an official that he had not signed before leaving...(apparently)
He was very upset because some players had to play it at it's treacherous worst and by the time the leader , Alleby got there the green was so wet he couldn't get his putt to the hole .
Leaney blew his top when playing partner O'Malley had a short par putt which trickled past the pin  , off the green and down the hill....
You don't reckon some water went on after that!!!
So some players played it in very difficult conditions , and others when watered...
Who is to Blame?
Well Peter Thomson courses , being links courses are subject to this issue - the Ocean course at the National , nearby  , recently reshaped many greens to make them playable in the wind .
However this was designed as a championship course , and certainly the length and difficulty of the course sort the wheat from the chaff . If the AGU wants to make these greens quick , perhaps they need to be a little more careful with pin positions .
Finally a word from Wayne Grady , who as a winner of the US pGA , and as players spokesman for Australian PGA  , offered these words to outgoing chief of the AGU Colin Phillips..."Well Done Colin . You are in charge of another fuck up at the Australian Open . Don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out"

[Phil_the_Author]

Peter,

I'm not taking issue with anything you wrote whatsoever... My contention is that what has happened at this years Australian Open is not the same as what happened at Shinnecock.

Did the ones responsible blow the pin position and the way they resolved it by adding water for some, but not all, the players? Yes!

Is that the same same thing as happened at Shinnecock? Only for ONE hole. The problems with Shinnecock's set-up is different than how the set-up for this Open was handled. The proof is in the scoring. At Shinnecock, according to many the dynamic design features were taken out of the course by the set-up and all of the greens suffered because of the weather, with the par-three being the worst of them all.

It appears, and I've only seen highlights and read reports, that that isn't the case down yonder. There are just too many players at & under par to state that the course set-up is unfair.

As for Mr. Grady, winning a major championship is only a sign that a player has, if but for one moment, reached the pinnacle of his game. It does not endow a player with intelligence or tact nor is it a barometer of either.

There have been many an ass who has won a major as well as many an intelligent and nice gentleman as well.

[David_Elvins]

It seems more similar to the Australian Open of 2002 that Shinnecock.  No matter who the AGU tries to blame, on both occasions, they seem to have put the pin in the wrong position for the green speeds.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Philip,

Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn' the Australian Open been plagued for some time with similar problems?

Bob

[Phil_the_Author]

As David pointed out, the answer is yes.

For me, I believe that just as the pressure to perform during a championship played on this level brings out the best & worst in players, it does so in organizations as well.

That is why I am a big fan of Mike Davis' with the USGA. He is approaching his new position as Championship Director with an open-minded attitude toward course set-up and management of it during the championship.

[Brian Walshe]

Philip,

Just an update for you.  There are now only 8 players under par and give the forecast for tomorrow I think you'll find that they will be lucky if there are still 4 guys in red ink by the finish.  If you take out the first day's scoring when it was calm and the greens a little more manageable then it all starts to look pretty ugly.

In fact the major reason that Friday became a fiasco was that there had been low scoring on the Thursday.  The AGU quickened things up a little and the pins went into some marginal spots to "protect par".  12 stopped play but there were 2 or 3 other greens that came close to having similar issues.

Lastly to the comments by Wayne Grady - this is the 3rd time that stupid pin positions have caused play to either be abandoned or suspended in the Australian Open.  There have also been other course set up fiasco's as far apart as Royal Adelaide and The Grand in Queensland when they have had the Open.  In each of these there has been a common factor, the gentlemen that Grady "farewelled" as he walked off the 12th.

Just because the root cause of the problem declares it an isolated instance doesn't necessarily make it so.

[Bob_Huntley]

Brian,

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

Bob

[tonyt]

Bob, just another Australian Open. Shinny paid royalties to our mob for the right to cover the same song.


The Masters has the azaleas.

The Open has rugged up players wearing beanies.

The Aussie Open has supers watering greens between groups.

All normal traditions!


Rich Beem summed it up best in 2002, and his comment can be used for all occasions this has happened;

"Wow, I've never seen play suspended due to perfect weather".


Philip,

It is not a one hole wonder. The first time this happened (Royal Melbourne), there were multiple unplayable greens that each presented problems equal or worse than the one standout worst instance at Shinnecock. On that day, three of the first six greens had few places near or far from the hole where a marker could be placed behind a motionless ball. On that day, there were eleven greens where if you were to pour a full 500ml water bottle onto the high point near the back of the green, 500mls of water rolled off the front edge of that green. I was among the group of four of us who were given the job of testing all eighteen greens in this fashion.

At Victoria in 2002, it was first noted at an early hole as the heat rose and had play continued, later holes would have come to similar attention. It came down to one hole simply because it was the first green that caused play to be stopped. Had it not, others may have surely followed.

In reply to Wayne Grady's comments, Colin was his typical self, proclaiming that he would have taken notice of the comments if they'd come from someone he respected. His tenure ends this year. Bully for all of us.

[Brian Walshe]

Philip,

Today I watched one of the more painful afternoons of golf telecast in this country.  I got to see Robert Allenby shoot 77 to win the Australian Open by a shot.  7 golfers finished under par after 4 rounds and if you discount the calm first day only Matthew Goggin finished under par for the final 3 rounds; he'll have many sleepless nights over his first round 76.

I would have gone and had a look in person but a 90 min drive each way to see guys making bogey wasn't my idea of worthwhile.  If the setup (given the nature of the course) wasn't as silly as Shinnecock then it was certainly trying very, very hard.

Mike Clayton's article on the 4th round is interesting and he actually mentions Shinnecock.

http://www.pgatour.com.au/default.asp?s=featuredisplay&aid=4933

[Mike_Clayton]

The course was not as far from the nornal member set-up as Shinnecock where it looked crazy on that last day.

It was not that windy over the last three rounds but it did blow hard enough to make it so tough that there were only three rounds under 70 over the final 54 holes.

The pinnable areas on the greens are tiny when they are set up as they were and I don't think I have ever seen so many balls slide off greens - sides, backs and fronts.
I have seen very few courses that could approach it for difficulty and none where the fairways are 60 yards wide as most are at Moonah.

[Brian Walshe]

Mike,

Were the greens much slower today?  The players seemed to all struggle to get the ball to the hole on the first few holes.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike and Brian,

The few comments that have been made seem to allude to this being a problem caused by a wind that dired the green out and that made the course play far more difficult.

Was this a situation where wind was unexpected or not to the extent that it would effect the field?

[tonyt]

Was this a situation where wind was unexpected or not to the extent that it would effect the field?

The course is in an exposed and windy location, and has been designed to take this into account (thus why on the calm first day, scores were very low). The situation which we Aussies have become accustomed to is that the AGU have always sought to unwisely push the envelope in certain instances, in ways that will bring them undone even without an unforseen set of circumstances. In almost every case, it involves having a dried green run too quickly to handle a daring hole location. And in NOT ONE of the three most famous instances cited above was the weather windier than can normally be expected on more than half the days of the year.

[Sean Walsh]

What speed were the greens running.  Anywhere close to the 9.5 that Thompson wanted?

If not would this have solved the problem?

[Mike_Clayton]

Sean,

It's only a guess but they had to be 10.5 at least.
They always have to expect wind there - it blows most days and once it's over 10 mph it's a brutal golf course.

Peter Thomson's argument is interesting.
He says we do not have a Championship venue to match the difficulty of Troon,Birkdale,Muirfield or St Georges and we needed one.

I disagree.
Does anyone really think Royal Melbourne,Kingston Heath,Metropolian,Royal Adelaide,The Australian or Royal Adelaide are not capable of testing our best players?

Maybe they are not as difficult as Moonah but we should be celebrating our best courses.

[Chris Kane]

Mike, weren't the winning scores of the last Opens played at The Australian and Royal Adelaide higher than Moonah Links this week?  This supports your point.

I don't agree at all with Thomson's argument.  Great tournaments don't need high scores - the most exciting of them all is the Masters, which has seen birdie-blitzes down the stretch for years.  Watching Allenby limp to 77 was hardly exciting golf.

[Matthew Mollica]

What this country needs is a professionally run Open, held on our best courses, with a financially strong main sponsor, more attractive TV presence, and a purse that at least rivals a second tier Nationwide Tour event. The most recently staged event had none of these elements.

Matthew

[Chris Kane]

Matt, I think you'll find that the Aussie Open purse well and truly exceeds anything on the Nationwide Tour - they play for $450-650k per week.  The two tournaments they co-sanctioned with the Australasian Tour were amongst the highest purses for the year.

The rest of your post is spot on.  They need to keep the Open in the capital cities, playing on the best courses.

[Jason Topp]

It saddens me that the Australian Open was not even on television in the US this year.  I've always enjoyed seeing the courses, hearing the television commentary and, in certain locations, seeing the participants do constant battle with large flying insects.

From an outsider's perspective, I'd love to see the European, South African, Australian and Asian Tours combined to create a powerful tour that would compete head to head with the US Tour for player, spectator and corporate support.  Given the changing economic times on the horizon, it would seem that the financial ingredients (rising economic power of Asia) and logistical ingredients (shortening of the US season) are there to create such a tour.  An Australian swing with four really strong tournaments would be a highlight of such a season.  

I'd love to see Australia embrace Asian influence rather than attempt to compete and beat it.  Asia seems to be winning the battle and I have to believe will for the forseeable future.

[James Bennett]

I attended the saturday and Sunday play of the Australian Open, working as a bunker raker/divot filler for a group each day.  I missed the Friday play when the incidents on the 12th green occurred ( I was undertaking the 10 hour drive from Adelaide to melbourne, then down south to Mornington) and it was a pig of a day.  Unexpected (from my part) - warm and a strong north wind.  All the way across the state.  Temerature in the low 30's (nearly 90 farenheight) with an extremely strong northern gale.  I expect similar weather occurred at Moonah.  On the two days I was at Moonah Links, the weather was mild (low 20's C/mid 70's F) with a strong southerly (the prevailing wind).

To give an understanding of the wind-strength, #16 hole is 411m (say 450 yards).  It plays slightly uphill for the tee-shot, then slightly downhill to the green.  In this case, I emphasise 'slightly' (there are other holes where the ground slopes are best described as 'severe' or even 'extreme').  On Friday, at least one player drove the green, in one!  On Saturday and Sunday, competent players required two good woods to reach the green (eg Peter O'Malley) whilst the stronger players needed a drive and a low, long iron.  So, the wind was strong.

The 18th was 580 metres (nearly 630 yards).  On the last day, Allenby hit drive plus long iron (3 or 4) through the green, with a bad hand.  On the 17th (180 metres into the wind, he hit a fairway wood, and came up short.  Some of the others who hit competent, low long-irons suffered the same fate.

The wind is a common occurence at moonah, especially the Southerly.  However, the northerly is far less common, although it seems surprising frequent when major golf is played in Melbourne (ie November/december and February).  It does happen around Summer.  There have been Royal Melbourne events where the wind has made a mockery of some greens/hole locations.

With regard to the #12 green, Peter Wood's post described the hole well.  The green is well elevated.  A little gap between mounds at the rear (perhaps at 1 o'clock) would probably have been perfect to funnel the wind onto this green (I don't know, I wasn't there).  I was told (reliably) by a local that the pin spot used was probably used two days a week for general play.  However, general play normally has a southerly breeze, not a northerly.  Certainly, the slope to the back left of the green is quite severe.

On the saturday, the pin was on the other side of the green (rhs), just past a steep upward slope at the front of the green (this describes many of the Moonah Links greens where run-up shots would be very difficult given the severe undulations before the steep green slopes. Precise aerial shots to the green are often required).  However, because of the exposed, elevated, upturned saucer (Peter Wood's description), one of my group had problems with a shaking ball, backing away twice before putting out.  it looked ominous, but was a non-event.

There was some showers on friday night and a strong storm Saturday night that helped to prevent the greens from drying out.  Don't know what they were like on Friday, but I can imagine given the dry north wind I experienced across Victoria that some parts could have got dry.  The greens were not soft on the weekend, but they were not dried out either.  Not sure how much was irrigation and how much was rainfall.

I was also reliably told that the greens (A1 bent, and very pure) were cut at 3.75mm (thats 0.15 of an inch, I think.  I don't believe that they roll the greens, because of speed concerns.  I was also told they stimped on a flat, windless piece of green (wherever that was) at 10.5.  So, the greens were marginally quicker than peter thompson was suggesting they would be.  Watching, I thought they were quicker but I believe my source.  Wind and slope are the issue.

Whilst the greens may have stimped at 10.5 on a flat, windless putt, a downhill, down-wind putt on a green like #17 (and that was really the only option, apart from chipping back from 30 metres) was like greased lightening.

I really enjoyed my two days there.  However, I had no desire to get the clubs out and tackling the course myself.  Watching 4 competent golfers play so many good shots and all shooting perhaps 5 over or more made me wonder how many holes I would have lasted before I 'lost it'.  Certainly, many of the pros did lose it.  I expect the friday experience was quite severe.  And, the severity of slopes would be an extreme test.

James B

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()