Ten best courses in the Phoenix area...

[Jim Dawson]

Bill,
If you can drive 35 minutes west of airport, try Raven at Verado.
Great layout, good service and best of all
only $99.00 per person which includes two meals and all day golf. I have played there 3 times and got in 36 each time.
We make it a must play on our trips to Phoenix, even though it is a 75 minute drive from our house.
Thanks,
JD  

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Jim -

Agreed on the Raven.  Best to play before catching the 4pm flight back east.

JWK

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I second Raven at Verrado. Good course, good conditions and the meals included in the fee is a good idea given the distance from the Scottsdale resort area.

Another course to consider in the West Valley is the newly renovated RTJ classic- Wigwam Gold. I played there recently and was very impressed with Forrest Richardson's work.

[Forrest Richardson]

Here are some public access ideas, including some of ours:

Encanto — City of Phoenix's oldest municipal; not in great condition, but right downtown. There not a lot to it, but it has potential. I always enjoy it because it feels like something old.

Legend Trail — One of the most graceful desert layouts, in my opinion.

Lookout Mountain — Quirky and tight. Some holes through development, but a few head-scratching holes that you will never see anywhere. Almost always in good condition.

Ventana Canyon — Mountain Cse (Tucson...slightly more than 1-hour) — One of my favorite Arizona courses (desert region)

Phantom Horse — Even more quirky than Lookout (sorry). Please ignore Holes 1 and 18. Not mine.

McCormick Ranch — Desmond Muirhead. A product of the 70s, and looks the part. One day it will be famous. Play it now.

Talking Stick — Well worth the time. Especially the North.

Coldwater — A development course we carved out of a cotton field. Does not look like a cotton field. Fun and cheap.

Red Mountain — Now private, but someone told me that public play is still offered (?). It is the best Dye work in Phoenix. Some really tight holes and housing too close, but a few holes at Pasatiempo have the same problem, so I forgive it.

A few mentioned Papago — We have been there preparing a restoration plan. It is in quite decent shape compared to years past.

The Wigwam is "back" — I am sure Mr. Allen would extend a courtesy to a GCA visitor. It can be difficult to get a tee time this time of year.

Biltmore Adobe Course — Short and fun and old and stately. Most of Bell Sr. was omitted by years of crazy resort managers and thousands of trees — and water. However, we brought back many old bunkers and created 3 new holes which had to be adjusted due to changes in the land use/ownership. The new holes drew from Bell Sr. and his work.

[Craig_Rokke]

Legend Trail-One of the best Rees Jones courses I've played

Talking Stick-Not big on the "wow factor" but the flat-site subtleties
worked by C & C worth a play for sure

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Craig

Legend Trail is more than Rees Jones course. From Ron Whitten's review at golfdigest.com:

"As I understand it, the project has changed hands at least three times. It started as Desert Ranch, with a routing by Tulsa's Randy Heckenkemper, who was going to make it his breakthrough desert design. But then another company took over, and Heckenkemper was out. (He'd eventually make his Scottsdale debut with The Sanctuary at WestWorld in 1999).

The new owners hired a couple of veteran Arizona architects, Forrest Richardson and his mentor Jack Snyder. They rerouted 10 holes to accommodate more housing development, expanded the proposed turf areas, then saw the project through permitting and into construction. But about the time half the holes had been cleared, the project was sold again. The new owners (which included veteran club professional Al Mengert) wanted a marquee name. Mengert suggested his friend Rees Jones. Snyder said they'd be comfortable working with him, and they did, until one day Richardson was asked not to show up anymore. He did anyway, on weekends, to check of the work of the sub-contractors that he and Snyder were paying as part of their contract. Jones stuck to the routing plan, but used his shapers to create greens and bunkers of his preference. "

Steve

[Steve_ Shaffer]

More from Ron Whitten's review:

"When Legend Trail opened, Snyder told reporters it was a design by him and Forrest Richardson, with collaboration by Rees Jones. But all the club's advertisements and promotional materials touted only Rees.

"We never get any credit," said Richardson recently. "Even though it's our routing, our grading, our site work, our irrigation design, our engineering. There are holes we fought for, like No. 11, where we begged to save a rock outcropping that splits the fairway and created a risk-reward situation." (The par-4 11th is the best gambling hole on the course.)"

[Don_Mahaffey]

Forrest,
It's been a while since I played Legend Trail, but I remember the 11th. I seem to remember a sliver of turf left of the large center hazard. It didn't seem likely that anyone would ever play in that direction. Was that to be an option? Do you see playing left off the tee as an option?
Am I remembering the hole correctly
Don

[Forrest Richardson]

There are two reasons that playing left at No. 11 has been diminished:

1)  The trees are overgrown

2)  A fourth tee was never built just forward of what is now the "main" tee. The problem with the "main" tee as it is usually played currently rests with the fact that the carry to the left is 200+ yards...and that is simply not workable for most.

I have recommended that the left be opened and the originally planned tee be constructed.

The area to the left, is actually quite wide as it nears the green. It looks narrow (and is at the front), which it should!

[Craig_Rokke]

Steve-
Interesting situation at Legend Trail. There is a course a few miles from me in West Chester, PA called Tattersall, that also carries the Rees Jones attribution. If I remember correctly, he did not carry out all of the work with the project, which would probably Doak-scale at about a 3+.

[Jim Dawson]

On the east side of town try Gold Canyon. best views and desert mountain golf to boot

[Tony Petersen]

For "traditional" golf in the Arizona here's a sample. Keep in mind that great in AZ is good in Mass, Jersey, MN, etc.

Phoenix CC (private)
Paradise Valley (private, fun greens, deep bunkering, interesting routing, BEAUTIFUL clubhouse)
Papago (public, great skins game on Monday, if they could get the greens to a 10.5 it would be make it that much better)
Encato Park (public, see Forrests comments, played there twice and both times the greens were running fast and true which was kind of surprising, great for the ego )
Moon Valley CC (private, after mAnnika shot a 59 they made the greens CRAZY, especially 17 and 18)
Pinnacle Peak CC (it's OK)

Desert courses worth a look:

Legend Trail (public, fun routing, favorite Reese course to date)
TPC Desert (public, cheap, walkable)
Desert Mountain (private... As far as I'm concerned, Desert/target golf doesn't get any better than Chiricahua and Geronimo. Outlaw is a shot-makers course, especially with the shaved dormant around the greens. played yesterday. Bring your A game )

Two clubs have really impressed me as of late:

Silverleaf and Golf Club at Scottsdale (if you can play both or either, do it. For the desert, they are solid)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Forrest

Are you consulting with new owners on possible changes at Legend Trail?

Steve

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Good call on mentioning The Raven at Verrado -- well done layout by Fought / Lehman and frankly it gets little attention because it's not in the core Scottsdale area.

Craig R:

You are being overly generous if you think Tattersall merits a "3" on the Doak scale. In my mind, it's a serious candidate for the worst Rees Jones course I have ever played.

The driving range alone can give you a serious case of vertigo!

Let's also not forget the theory behind the 2nd hole if one can even say such a thing.

[Forrest Richardson]

Steve — No, not officially. I visited the new greenkeeper and know the owners. I have made myself available to weigh in on anything they wish to accomplish. Right now they vare focusing on irrigation issues. When I was there this summer it was in good shape.

[Jeff Shelman]

I just got back from a few days in Phoenix (part work, part not-work). Since my parents live on the west side, I have played a bit more over there in the past couple of years than in the East Valley. While there aren't as many courses on the west side, there are some pretty good ones and there might be some better values.

I do like the Raven at Verrado (I played there this summer). There are some good holes out there. They do pump their all-day pricing, but if you call the shop, you can sometimes get just an 18-hole rate.

I played at Forrest's remake of Wigwam Gold on Tuesday of this week and like it. It's a classic golf course and you really don't feel like you're in AZ (something I like quite a bit). I never played the Wigwam previously, so I can't compare it to the condition it was in previously. I booked a tee time a couple of days before through golf602.com and played for $45. An added bonus is that they'll let you walk as well (no price break, but it's nice for a Minnesota guy to get a walk in this time of the year).

For anybody on here who served in the military, you should certainly play Falcon Dunes, the course at Luke AFB on the west side. It's a pretty nice Greg Nash course with some good holes and it's another place where you can walk.

I haven't played Coldwater, but I may at Christmas.

By the way, golf602.com has some pretty good deals. There aren't a ton of the real big name courses on there, but there are some pretty good spots to play. (no, I have no affiliation to the site, just trying to save my fellow treehousers a few bucks).

[Jeff Fortson]

I can't tell you what the 10 best courses are but I'll share what I think are the 10 best that I have played.

In no partticular order...

Talking Stick (North) - C&C
Talking Stick (South) - C&C
Southern Dunes - Schmidt & Curley
Papago - William F. Bell
Encanto - William P. Bell
Desert Highlands - Nicklaus
Anthem (Ironwood) - Greg Nash
Raven (South Mountain) - Gary Panks
Legend Trail - Rees Jones
Mirabel - Tom Fazio


I haven't played Apache Stronghold, most of the Desert Highlands courses,  Phoenix CC, Arizona CC, Wigwam, Whisper Rock, and many more exclusive and resort courses.

Of the ones I have played those would be my favorite 10 right now.


Jeff F.