Mighty Joe Lee designer of many courses

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

He designed many a course in the south. How come we do not discuss his work and what he meant to the game?

[A_Clay_Man]

JB- I'm familiar with some of his northern works. Lawsonia's third nine was a very special place. Not so sure if the newest nine, improved the Lawsonia experience, all that much. Also, his name is associated with the best of Chicago's public courses, Dubbs Dread. (I think?) Along with Dick Wilson, I'd categorize their style as RTJ disciples. Were they?

[A.G._Crockett]

Tiger,
A number of years ago, I belonged to a Joe Lee course here in GA, a mountain course called Bent Tree, which I really enjoyed.  I have played several others here and there in the SE.

If I had to guess at the answer to your question, I say:

a. lost in the shadow of RTJ
b. I don't think that any of his designs have been major championship venues.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

No, they have probably not been in a major. However that does not make his work worthy of note and discussion. I think he did my childhood club called Bayou DeSaird CC in Monroe La. It has very small greens and really was a pretty solid strategic course. It was a hit it straight or to the right part of the fairway depending on pin placement.  You had to have a great short game with the bermuda fringes in those days to score. The redo in the 1980's enlarged the green and really took some of the character out of the course.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Considering Dick Wilson's reputation of sometimes overimbibing, Joe Lee should probably get more credit than he does.  

[A_Clay_Man]

The old south nine at Lawsonia is a Lee Design and had some pretty tough shoes to follow (langford) and succeeded marvelously.

The first hole was a snake of a 3 shotter,followed by the "quarry hole". A "Y" shaped fairway that promoted the full carry over an old quarry,by playing to the right leg of the "Y".Tree gaurded the approach from the left leg. The second was a marvelous steep drop one-shot, with a wicked right side. Followed by a sharp dog-leg left par 4, that if you can catch it just right, when the dandelions or cottonwood seeds blow, its like golfing in a snow storm, without the drop in temp.

In retrospect he used the land very well and created great variety.

[David_Tepper]

There was a nice article ("Joe Lee's Legacy") about Joe Lee in the November issue of Travel & Leisure Golf. You can find it at:

www.tlgolf.com

Do a search for Joe Lee once you get there.

[Brad Klein]

Most of Joe Lee's work was done under the influence of the RTJ wannabe generation; the 1950s-1970s were a totally moribund period in American golf course architecture, surely the lowpoint of the craft since 1910. Only Pete Dye was doing interesting and distinctive work that has had any enduring merit. Lee, Wilson, Cobb, George Fazio and in fact most everything RTJ did since the mid-1950s falls into the vanilla phase.

[Andy Troeger]

Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on the Lee/Roquemore course Stonehenge at Fairfield Glade near Crossville, TN. I've played the course a few times and always enjoyed it but I've never looked at it that critically. #14 is a death-drop par three and #15 an interesting par five to a peninsula fairway. Most of the other holes are treelined with decent greens and bunkering. I remember liking the 8th, an uphill par five. Any other thoughts?

[Jerry Kluger]

One of Joe Lee's last courses is Musket Ridge in Maryland which is a very good public course just outside Frederick.  It has some very good risk/reward par 5s and short par 4s.  The fairways are lined with long natural grasses which make driving accuracy a premium and the setting is really nice in a valley with a nice view of the town.  I am not a big fan of the opening hole with a pond and the 18th is not a very strong finishing hole.  They are supposed to build a 3rd 9 but I am not sure that it is still going to happen.

[Brian Marion]

I used to belong to a Joe Lee designed course, Cross Creek CC in Mount Airy, NC. The course had a few good holes but some yawners as well. Maybe not the designers fault though, as half of the property runs through flat "bottom" along and over a creek.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Many of the Joe Lee courses I have played and seen are good but not great courses. The ones in Louisiana have good classical features with good solid routing and holes. They are not as good a most of the courses we discuss on here but much better than most of the modern courses I see as a regular diet.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

What of Lee's courses in Europe?  Where do they stand in relation to their European contemporaries and their US contemporaries?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Mark, I do not know how many if any courses Joe designed in Europe. I would also be interested to know the answers.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here is Ron Whitten's article after Lee's death. Whitten also wrote the book, "Gentleman Joe Lee."

www.golfdigest.com/courses/critic/index.ssf?/courses/gd200307architecture.html

[ChasLawler]

Joe designed the CC of Virginia's Tuckahoe Creek course in 1988. Actually he reworked an existing 9 and added 9 more, but the changes were significant enough to call the whole course his.

While I'd be reluctant to say the work was great, Joe's design was good, and drastically different form the other two courses at CCV...a nice complement to the more classical Flynn and Barker/Ross courses.

With some gently rolling topography mostly devoid of trees, Joe's design had a more modern flair featuring over 100 bunkers, with a lot of water in play as well. Personally I think that his routing failed to maximize the contours of the site, but the course as he designed it was fun to play...featuring wide fairways with penal bunkering and water hazards.

Unfortunately not everyone was happy with the design. In the name of maintenance savings and member playability, an architect was brought in too basically dumb it down - removing and reworking a number of bunkers - taking out much of the bite (both playability-wise and aesthetically) of the course.

I can't imagine Joe would be too happy with the work, and it's a shame his name is still attached to it.

[Tom_U]

Anyone with any strong feelings about his work at the Diplomat Resort and Spa in Hollywood, Florida?  (I'm going there for a meeting in December).

[Neil Regan]

Here is a post from last year, regarding the Joe Lee Scholarship:

 A few weeks ago (April 2004) I talked with head pro Rick Mattox at a Joe Lee course near Sea Island, the Hampton Club. Rick knew Joe well, and told me about a Joe Lee scholarship program that had helped Rick’s children among others. I told him about GCA, and a recent thread about what a fine gentleman Joe Lee had been. I suggested that he might consider posting mention of the scholarship program. Then I remembered that he wouldn’t be able to do that, as no new users can register right now. So I offered to post for him, if Ran approved, which he has done. Here is a letter I received from the administrator of the program:

 

   Dear Mr. Regan,
      My name is Tom Minnehan, and I am the chairman of the Joe Lee
Challenge Match golf tournament.  The tournament is held each year
at a Joe Lee-designed golf course to honor the late great golf course
designer and his widow Jinny Lee.
      As a result of the tournament, the Joe Lee Scholarship Foundation
was formed.  The scholarships are awarded each year to childern of
parents that are employees at a Joe Lee designed golf course.
      Rick Mattox, General Manager and Golf Professional at the Hampton
Golf Club on St.Simons Island, Ga., called me recently to say that you had
been a guest there and played his club.  He then told me about the web
site golfclubatlas.com that you are involved with.  I understand you might
post the scholarship info on your web site, which would give our charity
tremendous exposure.  Any donations would be sent to:
          Joe Lee Scholarship Fund
          P.O. Box 1270
          Boynton Beach, Fl 33425
      At the same time, we recently published a book of Joe's life and golf
courses titled "Gentleman Joe Lee:50 Years of Golf Design" and authored
by Ron Whitten.  We ask for a donation of $50 or more for a copy of the
book sent to the above address.  ...
      Mr. Regan, your help with the above would be greatly appreciated. On
a personal note, I retired as the Golf Professional at Turtle Creek Golf Club
in Tequesta, Fl. located just north of Palm Beach.  The Club was very
generous with my retirement, making me an honorary member, their first
Pro Emeritus.  ... [the
course] is a real jewel.  My address is:
          Tom Minnehan
          Tequesta, Fl 33469
          tminnehan@aol.com
      Again, thank you very much for anything you might be able to do to
help with our charity.
                                                  Sincerely, Tom Minnehan

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[Neil Regan]

Here is the link to a discussion on GCA after Joe Lee passed away in April 2003. His name comes up in other discussions too. It’s amazing to me to see how many Joe Lee courses are known to the website regulars.

 

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=608;start=0#msg13207

[Neil Regan]

Click below for the full article from the November 2003 Issue of TRAVEL & LEISURE GOLF




Joe Lee's Legacy[/size]
Overlooked for decades, the straightforward
courses he and Dick Wilson designed are
once again being given their due.
by Joe Passov

One day early in 1962, Ben Hogan opted out of his usual round at Seminole Golf Club in North Palm Beach, Florida, to try a new course located a few Sunshine State Parkway exits to the south called Pine Tree. Word had spread that this Dick Wilson-Joe Lee design was something special, but final judgment would have to wait until golf's purest shot maker had had his turn. The verdict? Hogan scraped it around in seventy-three, one over par, then wrote in the club's guest book, "The best course I have ever seen."

So, whatever happened to Pine Tree?
.....  
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