Better than Pebble?

[Pete Lavallee]

From today's San Diego Union Tribune:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/golf/index.html

[David Kelly]

Trump, ""We feel it's better than Pebble Beach. We have had some people out who are very familiar with Pebble Beach. Most people consider (Trump National) to be substantially superior."

How about refunds to those patrons who don't feel that it is better than Pebble Beach.

[A_Clay_Man]

Here is one that could actually be better than PBG(not)L.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Hurt me.

[rjsimper]

With the tourney down there this wknd, maybe I will make the trip and pay the 25 bucks...certainly more worth it than the 300 dollar green fee to go lose 20 balls in environmentally sensitive areas and waterfalls

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

David Kelly, How is Mark and do we kow what dome he is living in?

[Wayne Freeman]

The old course there was definitely average at best despite the spectacular setting, and I've heard that the new version is far superior, but still very narrow throughout- it would have to be a hundred times better to compare to Pebble.   I'm hoping to play there next month, so we'll see.  There is so much hype with Trump-  from what I understand it holds up at his New Jersey course, but certainly not in Palm Beach-  that course is ok but has many ordinary typical resort course type holes-  it's an embarrassment that it is in the top 100 of the Golf Mag and Digest rankings.  

[Jim Nugent]

There are a lot of courses better than Pebble Beach.

Yes, including most of Trump's courses.  Just ask the Donald.  

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Wayne,
I was there an played 16 hole in early 2004 and I saw the work they were doing on 18 at the time. Was the rest of the course later changed, because my impression at the time was they were leaving the bulk of it in place.

[Jim Nugent]

Actually, there are a lot of courses better than PBGLŽ, even without the Donald's opinions.

Interesting to me that you say that.  I've never played Pebble.  Recently took a photo tour of the course, right after a similar tour of Cypress Point.  CPC blew me away.  "Strikingly original" and "unique" were the words that immediately came to mind.  

In comparison, Pebble seemed kind of pedestrian. The pictures disappointed me a bit.  

I realize Pebble is not a pedestrian course.  Wonder if others have a similar reaction after playing the courses.  

[PThomas]

Geoff Shackelford reviews the course on his website, and doesn't paint the prettiest of pictures...

[Matt_Ward]

Paul T:

How many times did Geoff play the course?

There seems to be the opinion from the bleacher club here on GCA that "x" number of rounds are needed before any serious comments can be made.

Since it's Geoff I guess "they" will let that slide.

[Tom Ferrell]

I'm not ragging on Pebble.  It's an awesome and life-altering experience to play in that setting, with all that history.  But those who say it's not a links are correct.

As for Adam Clayman's picture of a new course that may be better than Pebble, I have some immediate comment.  The photo he posted in this thread is (I believe) #6 at Doak's Ballyneal in northeast nowhere Colorado.  I played it yesterday with owners Rupert O'Neal and his brother, Meadow Club professional Jim O'Neal.  What a place.  I took copious notes and photos and will post a full pictoral account soon.  But my initial impressions are...

1.  Best fairway contours I've ever seen, anywhere.
2.  Green contours that would make Mackenzie salivate.
3.  Big course - wide - but most holes have a definite - and dangerous - "line of charm."
4.  You want ground game?  Ballyneal is going to give it to you.  Wind, minimal watering and greens topping out about 9 on the stimp, along with multiple spines and ridges on most fairways and greensites will make rolling the ball an art form.

Great things afoot in the Colorado hinterlands!

TOM

[A_Clay_Man]

TomF- I beleive it is the 8th hole I have pictured above. I'll confirm, in about a month, when I get to see it again.

[Mike_Golden]

Paul T:

How many times did Geoff play the course?

There seems to be the opinion from the bleacher club here on GCA that "x" number of rounds are needed before any serious comments can be made.

Since it's Geoff I guess "they" will let that slide.

Matt Ward,

Maybe it's just that the ones who do happen to respect Geoff's opinion based on the scope of work he's done in the industry, just as they do Tom Doak's when it comes to rating golf courses.  And maybe, if they respected your work, they would do likewise.  Comprende?

[Matt_Ward]

Mike Golden:

You don't know me from squat partner -- this idea that only the chosen few can comment is preposterous jibberish. I stand by my field work and the depth / range of courses I have played over the span of 30+ years.

My opinions come from actually playing the courses in question -- I don't just take a quick walk through them as some do and I clearly don't give any benefit of the doubt to the "name" architects or the "most favored" by the chosen elite that occupy GCA. Everybody gets an equal look and each site is judged on its own merits. A number of people here on GCA simply take the stance that if designer "X" does any course than ipso facto it must be great. I don't.

You have no idea on the scope of work I've done in the industry. Mike -- do yourself a huge favor -- learn to respect people who may take a different opinion than the company line that a number of people throw forward on this site. When you have walked my shoes then maybe you can tell me what I don't know.

I'm not losing a wink of sleep on what you think about me but when people insert rules / procedures that apply only to a few and not across the board it becomes painfully apparent the double or even triple standards that are in play here.

Comprehende Senor Golden.

Adios ...

[Mike_Golden]

Matt Ward,

Since I've never made a comment on GCA about any of your opinions you have no way to know whether I respect them or not.  I was simply commenting that those who have and apply what you consider a double standard are simply exercising their right to believe whatever they like.  If they choose not to respect your opinion, for whatever reason, that is their right, partner.  As for me, for the most part don't pay much attention to your writings because, except for Bethpage Black, we have little in common about what we like on a golf course.  And, at least the last time I looked, that was perfectly within my rights.