Doak and Strantz in Myrtle Beach (MattW is wrong!)

[Michael Whitaker]

Matt - We'll get to Bulls Bay later.

[Michael Whitaker]

Michael,
Do you know if Strantz oversaw all of the changes?  From what I have read about him, I would assume so.  Also, do you think that "softening" True Blue might have shaped his later designs? 

One of his common themes seems to be shots that appear difficult, but in reality are not.  A line of play is shown to the golfer, and proves to be a very generous option, but there is a lot of visual uncertainty as well.  He asks the golfer to trust, commit, and execute.  The first three holes at TB, on the other hand, just seem HARD in their original configuration.  Do you think that he considered them too difficult?

AG - I will relay the story as it was told to me by Donald O'Quinn. Mr. O'Quinn, who is now in his late 70's, was Executive Vice-President at Sea Pines in charge of sports operations, and the first Tournament Chairman of the Heritage Classic. Over the years he was involved in the construction of numerous noteworthy golf courses including Harbour Town Golf Links and all of the Sea Pines Company courses at Hilton Head Island, Kiawah Island, Amelia Island, River Hills in Charlotte, and Palmas Del Mar in Puerto Rico.

OK... Mr. O'Quinn is great friends with "Doc" Lachicotte, one of the owners of Caledonia and True Blue. True Blue was designed to be a ball-buster. "Doc" and his partners asked Mike Strantz to build them the Grand Strand's version of Pine Valley... and he did. They wanted TB to be know as the toughest course in SC. Their marketing campaign for Caledonia and TB was, "Heaven and Hell." Here is a sample of the old ad:



Well, they found out pretty quick that most vacationing golfers didn't want to get beaten up on the golf course. Word of mouth (and cash flow) was bad and lots of customers swore they would never come back.

"Doc" and the boys asked Donald (who was now retired and living in Pawleys Island) to tour the course and suggest any changes that he thought would bring the customers back. Donald did just that and presented a list of proposed alterations to the owners. After tweaking the list, the owners asked Donald if he would meet with Mike Strantz and discuss the proposed changes with him. Donald agreed and a meeting was set. Donald said that he and Mike got in a cart, just the two of them, and rode the entire eighteen holes while Donald detailed the changes the owners were contemplating. He said that he and Mike had a positive conversation about the changes, that he understood why they were being contemplated, made some of his own suggestions, and was very upbeat about the project. At the end of the tour Donald said he thought Mike was completely on board with the project and embraced most, if not all, of the changes. According to Donald, over the next couple of days Mike helped make arrangements for the equipment, materials, and labor they would need to begin the project. At some point after that Mike and Donald spoke again. This time Mike told Donald that he had discussed everything with his staff and they had decided it was not in their best interest to participate in the changes because the course was fine the way it was and that most of the changes Donald had proposed were not necessary. And that, according to Donald, was that. There was no swaying Mike or getting him to participate. Donald then took over the project and oversaw the changes to the course.

Wild, huh? But, that is straight from the horse's mouth.

[Michael Whitaker]

TRUE BLUE CHANGES - Second Installment

True Blue #4 - I can't think of any significant changes except the graphic does not show a bunker protecting the front portion of the green, next to the water, and I could swear there is one.


True Blue #5 - I can't think of any significant changes.


True Blue #6 - The main alteration here was the mowing down of the marsh grass between the teebox and the beginning of the fairway. Originally, the grass was allowed to go fairly high and it was difficult to see any tee shot land on the fairway. Also, teeshots often caught the grass and dropped into the marsh. The grass is now kept cut down pretty low.


True Blue #7 - Big change here. There used to be a large mound (a ridge really) about half way to the green that made shots to the front portion of the green blind. You can see where the ridge was in the graphic. The ridge was completely eliminated. There were also some significant changes made to the green, but I don't remember what they were. I have read some accounts that describe the 7th green as being completely rebuilt, but I don't remember that much change... only the hill being taken out.


True Blue #8 - REALLY BIG change here! If you remember, this hole has a ridge on the inside of the dogleg that you can attempt to carry with your tee shot and cut off a chunk of the hole. And, if you also remember, there is a fairly wide opening to the left of that ridge for players who want to play around the safe way. Well, look at the graphic good... the opening to the left used to be very narrow and the ridge continued on the left side of the fairway. It was sort of an Alps type shot and a bit of a precursor to the teeshot at #1 on Tobacco Road. Now, look close at what the graphic shows is on the far side of the right hand ridge... a waste area and a STREAM (or ditch really) running along the length of it. Yes, that's correct, to cut the dogleg you had a blind teeshot that had to carry the ridge, a hidden waste area, and a hidden ditch. Pretty tough stuff. Also notice that the ditch ran all the way along the right and wiggled around the right side of the green. The picture in the "Heaven & Hell" ad above is of the 8th hole. Look how narrow the opening is, and you can see the begining of the ditch on both sides of the opening. Also, look at the bunkers fronting the green. I don't think those greenside bunkers are there anymore. This hole was probably changed more than any other. Look at the picture in the ad again... reminds you of Tobacco Road, doesn't it?


True Blue #9 - The primary change on this hole had to do with the waste bunker on the left side of the fairway near the green. This waste bunker used to cover the entire distance between the marsh and the green. The first 3/4 of the bunker was grassed to provide a landing area for second shots over the marsh, resulting in a very large true greenside bunker left of the green. Also, like #6, the marsh grass used to grow fairly high here but is now kept cut down low to help balls clear the hazzard.


We'll start on the back nine tomorrow!

[A.G._Crockett]

Michael,
This is great stuff, and I am enjoying it tremendously.  I appreciate the story about the changes, and TB is one of those courses that is so memorable that I can picture most of what went on.

As I said in an earlier post, I love #8, but I'm not sure I would have loved it quite as much in the original configuration.

My brother recently told me about his business partner, who is a scratch golfer, taking two buddies to TB in the early days of the course.  They played the tips, and the two friends, who were well above average golfers, got KILLED.  Both were logo ball collectors, and both declined to buy a ball at the end of the round, and swore they would never return.

I wonder if Strantz had doubts at the time he was building the original about whether or not it would be to hard for the occasional visitor.  It strikes me as a course that would have been much, much more playable and fun in a private club setting where "local knowledge"  was available to help identify the target.  I wonder this primarily because Strantz's ability to create a course that is visually disconcerting but emminently playable, such as TR and Tot Hill, was almost a signature.  It still seems, though, that tee selection at TB is absolutely of paramount importance.

I would also think that an architect who builds exactly what he was asked to build, then is asked to change it by someone that he might well see as less qualified (and rightfully so!) would find this to be a tremendous source of frustration.  

[Andy Hughes]

Given the comments made on True Blue I wonder if the folks who have played there have played Bull's Bay outside Charleston and how they see the two courses stack up against one another.

Matt, I have not played Bulls Bay. Of course, I would love to at some point.  I hope you can share your experience/thoughts at some point (and bring a dang camera with you next time!  )

[Andy Hughes]

Here is a representation of how #3 used to look. You can imagine the view from the right teebox... just a big sand wall staring you in the face! You can also imagine the amount of slope that there was on the front half of the green.

Mike, amazing how similar the group playing in front of you was to the group playing in front of me!  
By your pic, it appears that it would have been almost impossible to hit to the front portion just based on the severity of the downslope.  I wonder if this change didn't actually improve the hole?

[Michael Whitaker]

AG - I'm not sure Mike had doubts about TB being too hard because, as I understand it, he was asked to make it "too hard." The thinking at the time was that they wanted TB to be the most difficult course most people had ever seen. They thought the difficulty would be a marketing position and would make TB "The" must play course for the elite golf crowd. Unfortunately, that elite group of players makes up a small percentage of the vacationers to the Grande Strand, and the course was so tough that mere mortals were frightened away. They had no choice but to soften the course for the average player. I think most of the changes were good ones... there are a few features I miss like the WOW factor when first-timers saw the 3rd green... but, overall, the changes didn't significantly alter the way the course played for the better player and made it much more enjoyable for the average player, which shows in the amount of business that TB now gets. There's not much wrong with that.

Andy - my PhotoShop skills are fairly weak, but I thought you might want to get some idea of way the 3rd green used to look. The front part of the green was very steep from front to back and the only way to play to this part of the green was to barely clear the front edge and let the ball release down the slope. You ALWAYS had an uphill putt to the hole. The greens were kept at a fairly moderate pace back then so it was not an impossible hole to play, just really scary. I can't tell you how people would freak out playing that hole and hit the ball all over the place. It's like AG said earlier, it was a hard hole but not as hard as it looked. That's a key to Mike Strantz, he often makes things look a whole lot harded than they really are.

[Jfaspen]

Given the comments made on True Blue I wonder if the folks who have played there have played Bull's Bay outside Charleston and how they see the two courses stack up against one another.

Matt, I have not played Bulls Bay. Of course, I would love to at some point.  I hope you can share your experience/thoughts at some point (and bring a dang camera with you next time!  )

Check out the club's homepage (i think it's www.bullsbay.com, but if not google it).  It has some great pictures that make me want to visit it sometime soon.

[Andy Hughes]

True Blue #8 - REALLY BIG change here! If you remember, this hole has a ridge on the inside of the dogleg that you can attempt to carry with your tee shot and cut off a chunk of the hole. And, if you also remember, there is a fairly wide opening to the left of that ridge for players who want to play around the safe way. Well, look at the graphic good... the opening to the left used to be very narrow and the ridge continued on the left side of the fairway. It was sort of an Alps type shot and a bit of a precursor to the teeshot at #1 on Tobacco Road. Now, look close at what the graphic shows is on the far side of the right hand ridge... a waste area and a STREAM (or ditch really) running along the length of it. Yes, that's correct, to cut the dogleg you had a blind teeshot that had to carry the ridge, a hidden waste area, and a hidden ditch. Pretty tough stuff. Also notice that the ditch ran all the way along the right and wiggled around the right side of the green. The picture in the "Heaven & Hell" ad above is of the 8th hole. Look how narrow the opening is, and you can see the begining of the ditch on both sides of the opening. Also, look at the bunkers fronting the green. I don't think those greenside bunkers are there anymore. This hole was probably changed more than any other. Look at the picture in the ad again... reminds you of Tobacco Road, doesn't it?

Mike, yes it does remind me of Tobacco Road, quite a bit. And I am thankful you told us what hole was in that ad--I went throught the entire course in my head and I could not figure out what hole that was (and I was just there a few weeks ago). I find that picture quite appealing, but going by your description, I suspect the hole is better now than it was then though I never saw or played the original.  
Here's the only picture I took of #8 (the townhouses do not add to the charm):



I find the change to be amazing.  Its still a blind, scary shot to cut off the dogleg, and I really like the heaving fairway in the bailout area left as well as the false front effect to the front and left sides of the green.
The green now seems to sit higher than it does in the original picture---is that possible Mike?

Here's number 9 today. I think it shows much of the change you describe to the waste area left:



Mike, any idea why there are two greens for #6?  Also, I found that hole to be my least favorite.

[Andy Hughes]

Check out the club's homepage (i think it's www.bullsbay.com, but if not google it).  It has some great pictures that make me want to visit it sometime soon.

Jeff, its www.bullsbaygolf.com, thanks for the pointer.  
Did you happen to think that any of the pictures of #9 reminded you of Shinnecock?

[Jfaspen]

Check out the club's homepage (i think it's www.bullsbay.com, but if not google it).  It has some great pictures that make me want to visit it sometime soon.

Jeff, its www.bullsbaygolf.com, thanks for the pointer.  
Did you happen to think that any of the pictures of #9 reminded you of Shinnecock?

Andy,

I think if you search this forum, there is a thread devoted to BB or to Stranz's work generally which discusses the course.  The placement of the clubhouse and it's visibility from several points on the course was compared to Shinnecock and that is indeed the observation I had through only viewing the photos on that sight.
To me, the course looks like a more exansive caledonia.  It lacks the grandness of True Blue, but the styling is more appropriate for a members club.  It is truely a course I hope to play soon so I can quit making judgments solely on the website.

Jeff

[Andy Hughes]

I think if you search this forum, there is a thread devoted to BB or to Stranz's work generally which discusses the course.  The placement of the clubhouse and it's visibility from several points on the course was compared to Shinnecock and that is indeed the observation I had through only viewing the photos on that sight.

Jeff, and I finally had an original thought. Thanks for bursting my bubble.    
Why does everyone else find lots of cool things when they search the site?

[Michael Whitaker]

Andy - Your picture of the 9th green shows exactly how the changes affected the hole. just imagine the left bunker extended all the way back to the marsh... and the marsh grass about four feet high. Very different look and playability.

I have no idea why there are two greens on #6... guess Mike just thought it was a cool thing to do. It does make for two totally different holes, one straight away and the other a severe dogleg to the right. Maybe they just couldn't make up their minds and said, "To hell with it, let's build both!"

[Michael Whitaker]

TRUE BLUE CHANGES - Third Installment

True Blue #10 - I can't think of any really significant changes here except the marsh fronting the green is kept cut down (as they are doing throughout the course). Like the second on #9, your third shot used to be screened by the marsh grass... it was really just a mental thing because the marsh ended well before the beginning of the green. Even though this green has some good slope to it, I think it used to be more severe with a pronounced hump running through the middle.


True Blue #11 - No changes on this par three that I can remember.


True Blue #12 - There is only one change I can see here... I think the waste bunker on the right side of the fairway between the cart path and the green has been removed.


True Blue #13 - If you remember, the second shot on this hole has to fly a mound in the middle of the fairway resulting in a blind shot to the green. I think the hidden greenside bunkers on the far side of the mound have been removed. I believe the only greenside bunker remaining is the one half-way back on the right side. I hope Andy has a picture of this because I'm not convinced I'm correct... in my mind I just can't see the bunkers there anymore.


True Blue #14 - I don't think there were any significant changes to this par three.


True Blue #15 - This is a GREAT par 5! I believe the bunker just short and right of the green has been removed. I hope Andy has a picture of this one, too.


True Blue #16 - No changes to this par three.


True Blue #17 - I can't think of any changes here.


True Blue #18 - The main change to #18 was a recontouring of the green. Even though the green now slopes from front to back, it used to REALLY slope from front to back. And, the backside perimeter of the hole used to flatten out so that a "hot" ball would run down the slope and right off into the water. The overall tilt from front to back was reduced and the backside perimeter was raised which created a slight upslope around the edge to slow balls and keep them from running off the green (the same thing was done on #3).


Whew! There you have it as best I can remember. I can't wait for a group of us to play TB one day and compare thoughts on the pluses and minuses of the changes. As a final thought... most of the greens (if not all) had some slope taken out of them. It would not surprise me to learn that the greens were changed on the holes that I think had no changes. Some of the alterations were that subtle.

True Blue is one of my all-time favorite courses to play. It never presents the same challenge and always requires the best that I've got. I've had some of my best rounds on TB and a lot of my worst... but, as soon as I finish a round I'm ALWAYS looking forward to going back. I can't say that about too many courses.

[A.G._Crockett]

Michael,
Thanks for all your hard work on this thread.  I've learned a lot, and really wish I had seen the original course.  (I think!)
Hard to imagine the green at #18 being more severe.  A dogleg left with water down the left, and a green that slopes right to left and away is really tough, and we haven't mentioned that there is OB on the right because of the edge of the range.  You have to hit it way right, of course, but that is very possible because of the intrusion of the water on the left.

Great golf course, and your analysis makes me want to get there again soon.  Thanks!

[Michael Whitaker]

AG & Andy -

I found a picture of hole #2 before the changes.

Compare this picture with Andy's. You can see why it was such a difficult hole for most players... there was no place to miss the green. To tell the truth, I like'd the old version of #2 better. It's a short hole that required a precise layup to get the right angle of approach, then a very precise second shot with a short iron. But, I can see where the average vacationer would find the hole too much to handle. I can picture some of them hitting the ball back and forth across the green from one sand area to another... then, moving over to #3 to face that scary tee shot!

Something else I just noticed... there used to be a gnarly tree (dead, I think) to the left of the green. You can see it in the old picure. It was obviously taken out when they grassed the waste area.

[A.G._Crockett]

For those who have not played TB, the green on #2 is MUCH narrower than it looks in this picture.  In the front, it is not much more that about 5 paces across, I would guess.

[Andy Hughes]

Even though this green has some good slope to it, I think it used to be more severe with a pronounced hump running through the middle.

Hi Mike, here's the 10th green today taken from right of the green. As you said, it still has some real slope to it.

I think the hidden greenside bunkers on the far side of the mound have been removed. I believe the only greenside bunker remaining is the one half-way back on the right side. I hope Andy has a picture of this because I'm not convinced I'm correct... in my mind I just can't see the bunkers there anymore.

Sorry, the only picture I took of this hole was from the fairway, but I don't remember any hidden bunkers over the mound. Here's the one I did take:

This is a GREAT par 5! I believe the bunker just short and right of the green has been removed. I hope Andy has a picture of this one, too.

Sigh-I'm letting you down on the back nice  
Found this to be much like number 1--keep it in the fairway for your first two shots, get as close as you can to the green, and hit a really good wedge!  Back pins must be very scary--here's what you get going just over:

Hard to imagine the green at #18 being more severe.  A dogleg left with water down the left, and a green that slopes right to left and away is really tough, and we haven't mentioned that there is OB on the right because of the edge of the range.

A.G.--I agree!  I think 18 is plenty hard enough now

[Andy Hughes]

But, I can see where the average vacationer would find the hole too much to handle. I can picture some of them hitting the ball back and forth across the green from one sand area to another... then, moving over to #3 to face that scary tee shot!
Something else I just noticed... there used to be a gnarly tree (dead, I think) to the left of the green. You can see it in the old picure. It was obviously taken out when they grassed the waste area.

This seems like another good change, and  I've either said or thought that about almost every change you've highlighted Mike.  I personally prefer the look of the original #2, but still think it was a good fix.  Though they should have left the dead tree!
Here what you find short of the green today (not to pick on Rob)



PS Mike, ditto what AG said: thanks for all the heavy lifting on this thread!