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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« on: August 31, 2005, 01:20:05 PM »
Am I the only one that is getting very nervous about the economy?  I have alot of other things to worry about than golf but it seems that with disposable income shrinking every time we fill up at the gas pump, playing golf is going to take a major back seat to other things, like food and clothing.

Add in the disaster relief that will be forthcoming to the South, the war in Iraq, and a possible decline in housing prices (and all of the factors going with that) and I think this economy is in big trouble.

end of rant.

 

Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2005, 01:25:33 PM »
Hi Joel,

I sell "food" for a living, you have been and will be paying more for that as well until fuel prices come down.

Jason

Ian Andrew

Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2005, 01:35:40 PM »
Joel,

I'm with you, I'm nervous about the state of golf.

The overbuilding of courses, the cost of the game, and the fact participation has been in decline for a while all scare me.

Private clubs up here are competing for members like they did in the late 80's and early 90's. The high end public numbers have dropped pretty hard at some courses, (too many clubs too high a price) and have dropped in general.

Price of irrigation and construction go up, land costs are through the roof; the second golden age (quantity not quality - before anyone gets stuck on that phrase) is coming to a close.

Yeah, I'm worried.


Someone please tell me how America can afford Iraq and now New Orleans without going into a recession. I could use the reassurance.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 01:37:06 PM by Ian Andrew »

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2005, 01:36:36 PM »
I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but if you live in a northern climate then you will be getting hit doubly this winter as NatGas and Heating Oil have gone up substantially as well.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2005, 01:40:07 PM »
I would be quite worried if I were operating a destination, CCFAD.  Especially the second tier ones, below the Pinehursts, American Club-Kohler, Bandon sort of facilities.  

Super Pete G., once told me that the fuel budget at his course would not break the bank when we lamented some two or three years ago about fuel going to 1.60-80 a gallon from around 1.25.  What about 3-3.25!  Fert, chems, etc all going to cost more.  Maybe we will be seeing that lean and mean maintenance meld coming along pretty soon...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim Nugent

Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2005, 02:00:57 PM »
Iīd be REAL nervous about any real estate holdings I might have.  Can prices keep going up and up?  Thatīs what they said about the NASDAQ.  And if real estate falls, economy is going to take a beating too.  

A_Clay_Man

Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2005, 03:12:38 PM »
Joel, Don't worry brother. Did anyone see the governor of Montana on CNBC yesterday? He reminded us all that there are alternatives to black bubbeling crude. Coal can be made into diesel for an equivilant of $35 barrel oil. Interest rates will need to rise rapidily before the sky starts falling.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2005, 03:26:02 PM »
Ones personal financial matters are all about priorities and choices.  

Inasmuch as gasoline is more than $ 3.00 a gallon, the coffee that many buy at Starbucks is more than $ 25.00 a gallon.

Real Estate holdings are only risky if there is a large amount of debt.

I would rather be employed with inflation then unemployed and no inflation.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jim Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The economy and golf = getting worse before it gets better
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2005, 04:16:05 PM »
First, we should be clear that we are talking about a golf industry problem not a golf "the game" problem.

Are you willing to consider that a golf business slump is a good thing?
 
Already we are witnessing equipment prices falling, club membership costs falling, greens fees falling (most often so far in the way of off peak specials, pre-pay deals, annual "dues" at public courses, etc.) If the golf sector is overbuilt and overpriced, and/or valued less than, say, the annual family vacation, there will be some contraction somewhere, first on the margins (once a year golfers, high end equipment, high end ccfad's with inflexible cost structures, applications for championship tournaments, and so forth), and later nearer the industry core if necessary. Not unlike the general economy, some people will be hurt through lost jobs, fewer commissions, unsold inventories, and whatnot. The people who value golf the most, however, will benefit by declining costs. Land which is now dedicated to unproductive golf development may be put to a higher and better use. Latent demand- that is, future demand for golf by those unable or unwilling to participate in today's golf environmment, but will participate when prices fall, which they inevitably will, will build.

Just like in the late 80's and early 90's, the lower costs will eventually pull the marginal golfers back into the game. Club memberships will rebound. New golf jobs will be created. Prices, wages and profits will go back up. If there is enough demand, new golf courses will be built. It's a cycle, just like the general economy experiences. We may never again see the kind of growth we saw in the 90's. But that's not necessarily a bad thing- excessive growth and expectations got us to where we are today.

Remember- buy low and sell high! We may be entering a buyer's golf market!

From an agronomy standpoint, a slump may not be a bad thing. There have been many posts on this site bemoaning overmanicured courses- the "Augusta effect." So if superintendents have to learn to do more with less- become more efficient, less reliant on chemicals, etc., is that a bad thing? Wouldn't you like to see that at your own club/course anyway? Will we wind up with courses where the grass is a little longer, the greens a little slower and a little grainier (and healthier), fewer different mowing heights, bunkers a little less well maintained, fewer high maintenance ponds and fake waterfalls, etc.? Sounds a lot like an agronomic/GCA top ten wish list for many who participate here, doesn't it? And yes, greens committees and club members will have to adjust their expectations, but they'll be feeling the pinch in others areas too, so they will.

Even regulated markets ebb and flow for a reason- supplies and demands cannot be perfectly balanced. There will be pain for some. But no other economic system has ever proven more reliably- or inevitably - able to adjust. So it will be with the golf market.

Jim Nugent:Some people did say that about the NASDAQ. But there were plenty of people who questioned whether companies with no (even negative!) earnings could continue to carry such high valuations based on the price of their stocks. And many investors stayed far, far away from that sector. Human nature being what it is, too many people bought into the greed cycle when values were rising and sold in the fear cycle when they were falling and ended up much poorer for it. Some people, however, stuck with quality, earnings, good diversification and allocation strategies and   did just fine. And since the tech "crash" the sector has recovered pretty nicely.

"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman