Jake says the course is too soft

[noonan]

Jake said the course is overwatered and you cannot run the ball up on the green if you get in the rough.

It is nice to see a respected pro discuss course set up intelligently.

[Michael Moore]

Which course?

[PThomas]

let's always continue to beat the overwatering drum....maybe the sounds of the drum are starting to be heard by others!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Which course?I think it may be the course where the Jeld-Wen Tradition is being played on- the South Course at The Reserve in Aloha, OR.

www.reservegolf.com

[Craig Sweet]

It nice to beat the "over watering drum" but in a lot of cases the super is just trying to keep the grass alive...and in that case too much water is percieved (often correctly) as better than too little water. Pat Mucci has posted here many times that supers will do what they have to do to keep their jobs.

If you want to beat the over watering drum you will need to take a much larger, and more long term view, of how that change can come about. It will mean making many changes in maintinence practices, budgets,BOD's, greens committees,etc etc....a sea change if required beyond simply cutting back on irrigation.

[PThomas]

you are absolutely correct , Craig, I didn't mean to imply otherwise...I know the gun that many/all? supers work under

I think a lot of it starts with  dealing with golfer expectations...i.e., those who demand all-green, perfectly maintained courses...

[rgkeller]

It nice to beat the "over watering drum" but in a lot of cases the super is just trying to keep the grass alive...and in that case too much water is percieved (often correctly) as better than too little water. Pat Mucci has posted here many times that supers will do what they have to do to keep their jobs.

If you want to beat the over watering drum you will need to take a much larger, and more long term view, of how that change can come about. It will mean making many changes in maintinence practices, budgets,BOD's, greens committees,etc etc....a sea change if required beyond simply cutting back on irrigation.

How does overwatering keep grass more alive than proper watering?

[Craig Sweet]

RG...it's my opinion that in certain situations overwatering...what a golfer would consider "overwatering"...is necessary to replenish soil moisture and  the plants. Considering the various posts on this web site about the effects of the drought across the country, I think there will be times when supers will overwater their course.

Here, we're talking about a situation where the upper layer of turf feels and looks soft.  You can monitor soil moisture and water accordingly...perhaps call that "proper" watering, but in some situations, what is "proper watering"? Like I said, in some situations overwatering is necessary if you want your grass to live.

If the subject of this thread is about the Jenn-Weld Tradition, didn't the Portland area recently recieve a bunch of rain? In that case the super might have been giving the course a "proper" amount of water, only to have storms dump on him. He can't do anything about that and Jake can complain all he wants.

[Mike_Young]

There is an old saying that you never see a supt get fired for too much water.......member perception is the main culprit...

[Craig Sweet]

I just checked rainfall for Portland in August and they have received a trace this month...about 1/2" below normal. So, it sounds like the Super might be watering a bit.

[A_Clay_Man]

 Like I said, in some situations overwatering is necessary if you want your grass to live.

The SW area of the U.S. is one where this would tend to be more true.  140 days in a row with high ET rates is nothing. Plus, it is somewhat of a miracle to grow anything.

  When a course is as lush as lush could be, it is alot easier to play and predict what will happen to ones ball.

 Only a sadistic unselfish golfer would charish the anti-thesis.

However, in a conversation with Dave Wilber, he conveyed that if he could do one thing to his clients here, it would be to beat them over the head with deep watering, over frequent watering.

The real propblem is the sensitivity of people who think brown patches are undesireable. Preposterous.

One phenomenom that happens here is you can have both. Brown patches with standing water. It's the yuckiest gunkiest mud too. Why it's like clay, man.

[Craig Sweet]

We have a course here in town that's on clay. A real mess. They have a new super this year and he's got it figured out...he keeps it fairly green, but firm and fast. We have very hot temps.  little precip...wind and very low humidity...everything that turns grass brown...yet he manages to keep it looking good (someone must appreciate that), dry and alive without turing it into a total swamp.

[JohnV]

Hopefully Peter Pittock will weigh in here and let us know if his home course is wetter than usual for the tournament and why.

[Sean McCue]

The weather station was the worst thing ever invented for  golf course maintenance, well that is next to the Stimp.

Sean

[peter_p]

I was on the green advisory committee last year and was pushing the water issue. I am not on the committee this year. Understand that the club is owned by an individual, and operated within his family.

We have a trace of rain in August, .36" in July and 2.01" in June. The number of 90 degree days is above normal. Our club championship was held two weeks ago. There were embedded balls galore and I had to play a number of shots with mud on the ball. Casual water in some spots at noon.

I was more interested in watching Merion than going out to the Jeld Wen, especially at 90+. I may head out later today.
I'll be the one with the knee socks and straw hat..

For six years I have been hitting pitch and runs hoping to catch the day when this actually works, even on the "links style" Cupp course.

Even though the telecast says bent grass greens we have given up and are slowly (by intelligent design) evolving to poa. With an occasion moss infestation (12th green).

[peter_p]

Back from the course and saw Peter practising afterwards and brought up the subject. His complaint about overwatering is about the approaches, thinks everything else is fine.
    The approaches that I watched had releasing more than they do normally. As I said earlier, we have never had the approaches allow the release of a pitch shot. and thought it was a special hybrid rye-velcro grass.
    Perhaps Mr Huntley can translate this from M McNulty:

McNulty played at par following his eagle, and was especially cautious on the par-4 17th. `Two-putted the green and got out of there, thank you very much,'' he said. ``That's a bit of a swine of a hole.''

 

[Larry_Rodgers]

Sean,

The weather station is not the prime culprit. The automatic software promoting frequent replentishment is more of a problem tha the device generating data.

But then again your practices of producing fast & firm are among the best in the front range.

[Sean McCue]

Larry,

Who paid you to say that? .  Thanks for the kind comments.

Sean

[John Kirk]

See Witch Hollow comment...not being bound to tournament, Witch Hollow, across town, is brown, firm, and fast.

[Doug Siebert]

What I don't get is that if there is normal rainfall courses can be kept "fast and firm", or at least not to where drives leave ball marks and greens get really torn up by having every approach dig a 3/4" deep turf-tearing crater.

But during a drought like my area is currently "enjoying", I'm seeing this amount of overwatering lately.  And while there was a rash of 100 degree days with 105-115 heat indices that certainly stress bent grass and probably require more water than normal, now that the weather has been seasonal the past few weeks, they are still going overboard with the watering.  Can't they just put down the same amount of water that our normal 3.5-4" per month during the summer would be giving us?  The courses play like it just rained an inch a day or two before -- and the overwatered conditionings have been getting worse throughout the summer.