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Steve_Roths

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Club History
« on: September 01, 2005, 11:39:28 PM »
Do many of the old school golf clubs out their have a book detailing out there club history.  I have started to collect these from clubs that I have played and I am just amazed with them.  The last two I have picked up are Fisher's and PVGC.  Is there more of a push nowadays for clubs to detail their history in these publications.  

Also, what are some of the better ones to collect?

Michael_Stachowicz

Re:Club History
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2005, 06:35:52 AM »
Winchester Country Club has a nice one.

ForkaB

Re:Club History
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 06:45:32 AM »
Michael

As both sets of my grandparents were members of WCC, I'd be interested in a copy of their history.  Where might I obtain one?

Rich

TEPaul

Re:Club History
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2005, 07:20:03 AM »
Steve:

Most of the older courses in America do have club histories of one kind or another. In many cases they were inspired by the fiftieth, seventy fifth or hundreth anniversary of the club iteslf. Most of those history books detail the history of the club's membership and often the club's salient times and tournament records and such. Very few of those history books have chronicled the architecture of the course or the evolution of it like many on this website would like to see but that's beginning to change now.

Gregg Vincent

Re:Club History
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2005, 09:42:07 AM »
There was a post not too long ago on this topic.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=16468

Some good information there.

Gregg

John Foley

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Re:Club History
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2005, 04:42:39 PM »
Steve,

I picked up the latest from Merion when I was at the Amatuer and it's amazing. I would expect they still have more so if interested, I would contaact them.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Club History
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2005, 05:44:13 PM »
Pine Valley has 3 books, the Chronicles, the book by John Arthur Brown and the recent one by Jim Finegan which is by far the best history book I have seen.  

Shack has written a very good book on Riveria and then the Cypress Point book which I am not sure if its an authorized book?

Maidstone has an interesting book, Olympic Clubs (from 1960)is not very good but they have a new one next year.  Chicago Golf Club has a fairly good book as does Winged Foot.  Not sure if NGLA or Shinny have such books.

wsmorrison

Re:Club History
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2005, 05:51:41 PM »
The Shinnecock Hills GC history book by Goodner and updated (with little research) by Peper is good for some things but they attribute the course to Dick Wilson and do not address the architectural evolution (which is fascinating) very well at all.  I'm finishing up an evolution report that is very detailed.  

We've also done extensive evolution reports for:

Philadelphia Country Club
Merion
TCC Brookline
Indian Creek
Lancaster CC
Cascades
Old Course at Homestead
Boca Raton North and South
Yorktown CC (with help from GCA contributors)
Denver CC (with help from GCA contributors)
Huntingdon Valley
The Creek (with help from GCA contributors)
Mill Road Farm
CC Virginia
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 05:52:02 PM by Wayne Morrison »

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Club History
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2005, 06:31:34 PM »
Wayne,

Please tell me extensive research on the architectureal evolution you described will be detailed in the forthcomming book.

If the answer is no, then I'll need your adress to send the bribe to see the details ;)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 06:44:39 PM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

wsmorrison

Re:Club History
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2005, 07:01:04 PM »
John,

They have been written with the book in mind though some of the extensive histories will surely be edited down a bit for commercial publication.  As we speak, I am writing the Shinnecock Hills evolution report.  This will be about 45 typewritten pages without photos (I'm not sure how many book pages that translates to).  The Merion chapter was about 65 pages without pictures though some of the tournament histories will likely be omitted.  There will be lots of photos and drawings but we haven't laid them out yet to know what impact it will be on the number of pages.  To date the book is 525 typewritten pages and about 80% complete.

We're considering having a limited edition 2 volume set that includes everything and possibly a DVD with the original drawings (with some software that prevents digital reproduction--can a disk be read only?)  These can be customized for each club with embossed logo.  Fortunately our publisher is an arm of a printing company so it doesn't take too many customized copies to break even.

Our book is primarily an architectural history of the works of William Flynn with club histories and evolution reports making up about 75% of the book.  There's a nice chapter on routing and design differences at CC York (PA) by Ross and Flynn that both proposed designs.  We think this is very instructive in their differences.  Bob Crosby, Craig Disher, Scott Nye and Ron Forse have been a big help.  Design philosophy, culture of sporting clubs in that era, agronomics and maintenance practices (including maintenance meld), his complete writings, his life-what little we know of it makes up the rest.  I think we're also putting in a chapter on restorations and archives including resources and the efforts of Dan Wexler, Craig Disher and others that have been a big help.

So the answer is yes, if we have anything to do with it.  That's pretty much the point of the work.  Save your bribe and buy lots of books.  Or send the bribe and buy lots of books  ;)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 07:02:38 PM by Wayne Morrison »

TEPaul

Re:Club History
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2005, 07:14:26 PM »
" Not sure if NGLA or Shinny have such books."

Shinnecock has a couple of them---I think both by the same guy. Architecturally they aren't even to first base---it appears neither book was even sure who the architect was!  ;) Shinnecock does have an historian in David Goddard though (wrote the excellent Maidstone history) but so far it seems all he's done is write a very informative albeit rather short paper on the architecture of Shinnecock and its evolution.

I don't think NGLA even has a history book---not about the architecture anyway, maybe not about anything. One can not overlook the fact that towards the end of his life C.B. Macdonald was virtually expelled and even expunged from his own golf club.  :'(
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 07:16:08 PM by TEPaul »

Michael_Stachowicz

Re:Club History
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2005, 09:08:11 AM »
Michael

As both sets of my grandparents were members of WCC, I'd be interested in a copy of their history.  Where might I obtain one?

Rich

I think they sell them in the pro shop...

TEPaul

Re:Club History
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2005, 09:21:09 AM »
If any of you are interested in the history books of Shinnecock or NGLA my suggestion would be to contact the Shinnecock Indian Nation on Monday morning---they might give you a good deal on them.  ;)

Or, alternatively, you can wait a few years and pick them up at premium prices in one of the Shinnecock Indian Nation's casinos. One of their casinos will be damn unique too---as it'll undoubtedly be the only gambling casino in the world designed by Sanford White!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 09:24:57 AM by TEPaul »

John Yerger

Re:Club History
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2005, 11:38:52 AM »
Steve
If you are interested in architecture many don't cover that aspect of there histories but as Tom said that is changing. What members of GCA find interesting most Boards and there members don't. It is a fine line.

There are two books on Shinnecock, Peper essentially rehashed Goodners first book. In Shinnecocks second history book, Flynn is barely mentioned.

A history exists for Chicago Golf. There are two histories of Merion, a new one and one by Tolhurst in 1989. Pine Valley has three the first published in 1962. Other to name a very few include Somerset Hills, San Francisco Golf, which did a history in 1978 and Ridgewood. Oakmont has two books, the most recent in 2003.
The history done by Bob Trebus and Rick Wolfe of Baltusrol is definitely worth having. An earlier history of Baltusrol which isn't bad was done by James Mahon.

On the architecture side, Jeff Mingray's efforts on the Essex Country Club is also exceptionally well done and I would recommend.
Among real history buffs, St Andrews Golf Club (NY) 1888-1938 is a must own along with The Country Club 1882-1932 by Curtis and Heard.
These books vary in terms of content and direction. It depends on what you are looking for and what you are willing to spend. I will say that some histories of some established clubs are disappointing for lack of content or the content itself which Brad Klein discussed in a recent column in Golf Week.

if you are interested in the history of NGLA I would highly recommend Scotlands Gift to Golf by CB Macdonald. A whole chapter is devoted to NGLA and a map of the original layout is in the back. He also discusses architecture, Lido, Yale and Mid Ocean in Bermuda.

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Club History
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2005, 11:40:57 AM »
Riviera has a history book written by Geoff Shackelford.  If you play there you can pick one up for @ $60.  If you call and order one they just might ship it to you too.  It's a fantastic book.


Jeff F.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2005, 11:41:08 AM by Jeff_Fortson »
#nowhitebelt

wsmorrison

Re:Club History
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2005, 01:14:31 PM »
John,

Glad to see you on board.  I'm sure the group will be pleased to know that John is extremely knowledgeable about golf architecture, golf books (John has turned me on to some very helpful books), Tillinghast and research methods (including monitoring eBay) and results!  John, if I didn't try to intervene on your behalf you would have been on here a lot sooner ;)

I'm finally up to 1937 for the Flynn book and am about to start the chapter on Sunnehanna.  I hope we can talk sometime next week.  I want to make sure of your continued involvement.

Speaking of Sunnehanna, John wrote an excellent history of the club, course and the Sunnehanna Amateur.    

TEPaul

Re:Club History
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2005, 07:09:36 PM »
Speaking of club architectural histories it appears Wayno Morrison may now hold the world record in them. He's done about 42 (and counting) club history books in one book that's now reached 39,000 pages and growing rapidly. Last night his computer emanated a sickening belch and died of consumption.

wsmorrison

Re:Club History
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2005, 07:17:29 PM »
We're going to have to make a Time-Life Books infommercial for late night airing on the Golf Channel, Home Shopping Network, ESPN 8-The Ocho, and other obscure channels so that we can sell the entire 42 volume Flynn book collection one volume per month for only 19.99 each and we'll even throw in a video by Tom Paul on how to shoot even par with one good shoulder and a diet of cigarettes and red wine  ;D

ForkaB

Re:Club History
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2005, 03:33:14 AM »
Michael

As both sets of my grandparents were members of WCC, I'd be interested in a copy of their history.  Where might I obtain one?

Rich

I think they sell them in the pro shop...

Thanks, Michael

I was there last summer and didn't see it.  Of course, I didn't look for it either!  Next time, maybe......

Gerry B

Re:Club History
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2005, 09:00:55 PM »
Atlantic City CC has a book for sale at the club - not the best  - ie. not in  the same league as the PV / Merion / Fishers Island books - but has some interesting stories - ie how the term "birdie" evolved. An updated edition - Doak era would be nice.