cost of holding the amateur

[Jeff Goldman]

I understand that the Merion folks were (justly) very happy with how the tournament went and how the course played, but what does it cost to hold such a tourney?  My recollection from posts a few years ago here is that holding the US Amateur is not a money-maker, but quite the reverse.

Jeff Goldman

[noonan]

The prestige is worth every penny.

It help sell memberships and keeps initation fees high.

[JohnV]

Jerry,

I don't think that Merion or many of the other hosts of the US Amateur have any problem with charging what they want or even consider it in their decision.  It didn't help Pumpkin Ridge where initiation fees dropped from $45,000 to $28,000 between the 1996 US Am and 2001.

Jeff, The cost of running the championship is high, but much of that money comes from sponsorships and donations.  The club that has a good fund-raising committee shouldn't have to put out that much.  I believe that Pumpkin Ridge actually made a profit from the Amateur, but they were helped by having it be Tiger's third in a row.

[Dan Herrmann]

Jerry - If you're aware of any open memberships at Merion, please let me know as soon as possible.  

[Wayne_Kozun]

Does anyone have an idea of what percentage of the members at Merion are glad that they held the Am?  If this was my club there would be a significant portion of the membership, well over 50%, that would be incensed that their course was closed for 3 weeks (or was it even longer).  Holding a tournament and closing the club for a week or 10 days is one thing, but the membership lost their main course for a significant portion of the summer.

[Dan Herrmann]

Wayne,
I talked to a lot of members, easily IDs by their credentials, and they were thrilled by the US AM.

[wsmorrison]

Any club that has held 17 USGA events is not driven by ego but rather an indebtedness to the sport and giving back as they can.  Yeah, they closed the course down for 3 weeks and an additional week of the championship.  I'm sure there was a small minority with some grumbling but overwhelmingly these members seem to take great pride and satisfaction in making their course available.  I think the amateurs were genuinely pleased to have the opportunity to play two excellent classic courses.

In the same spirit they share archival materials with researchers and are very approachable if handled in a gentlemanly or gentlewomanly fashion.  Our relationship with these two clubs, partly because of friendship but also out of service to golf, is among the best of any courses we've researched for our book project on Flynn.

Would the members of PCC and MGC have liked to seen their courses more along the lines of their top annual tournaments?  Probably so.

"Is hosting an Amateur partly an ego trip? "

That is up to each individual.  Though I haven't met one yet that feels that way.  

[Craig_Rokke]

I would bet that the membership was almost unanimously behind the tournament, even if it meant losing the use of
the course for a few weeks. Heck, there are dozens of other
very good courses that are probably reasonably accessible.

I do remember a PGA Senior's Tour event that was held at a local club for half a dozen years or so. I think that by the 3rd or 4th year, the novelty of losing the club to the event wore thin for a lot of the members.

[TEPaul]

I'm sure you're never going to find unanimity in any club that holds a US Amateur, or any major tournament and it's probably no different at Merion. But it seems to me the members I know over there were pleased that they held it. Merion also has a most effective administration and that showed in this last US Amateur and I feel the membership understands and appreciates that. I also feel the decision to close the course completely a few weeks before it was scheduled to close was a decision that most within the membership understood. Those people aren't stupid and they all seemed to understand that if the club hadn't done that the course may've taken on some serious damage not just during the US Amateur but probably for the forseeable future as a number of other clubs around here did.

Lastly, did the club make or lose money during the Amateur? Well, that I wouldn't really know but if this quick story is any indication I'd say they probably made money and perhaps a bundle of it;

Mark Rowlinson and I were particularly thirsty one day over there and we both went to the concession stand and ordered two bottles of water that had Merion labels on them. Unfortunately the cash register lady could see we'd taken a few sips out of our water bottles before paying for them. She charged us $28.95 each for them. I asked her why they cost so much and she told me because we'd taken sips from them before paying for them. I asked her what the cost of them was normally and she said $2.00 each. I said I wanted to return ours and get new ones and she said that wasn't allowed and we had to pay $28.95 each for our opened water bottles. I told her I refused to do that and she pointed to a few guards behind me that were dressed like a SWAT team. She said I'd have to take it up with them. I asked who in the hell they were and she informed me they were the Merion Traditions Committee SWAT Team. I gave her my entire wallet and Mark and I ran down #1 as fast as we could.

In truth Mark Rowlinson mentioned more than once that to him the US Amateur at Merion felt incredibly cozy and relaxed--as it can be in England in a tournament. That's nice praise for Merion and the US Amateur coming from a cozy Englishman such as Mark is.

[Robert Thompson]

Wayne would know better, but I'd bet that Merion had some pretty good arrangements with other local clubs during the period in which it was closed. In Canada, when Hamilton held the Canadian Open, the members were able to play places like Magna, St. George's and the National while the club was closed. Given a club with the prestige of Merion, I'm sure the members didn't have issue finding games.
That would have made it much easier for them to deal with the course being closed, I'm sure.
I think this is a factor people forget when considering whether the members were happy holding a tournament.
What's the cost of holding the US Am? Well, if a place in history is a cost, I guess Merion is paying dearly.

[TEPaul]

Robert:

You're right about that. We at GMGC were forced to host a boatload of that riff-raff from Merion. I said I didn't think we should do that but I was told to take the issue up with the Merion Traditions Committee.

We also had to host some of the USGA Executive Committee and some of their rules officials. I said I'd go for that only under the stipulation they play with hickory clubs and gutta percha golf balls.

[Robert Thompson]

Tom: But doesn't this mean you get to grab your hat and clubs and head over to Merion, or doesn't it work that way?

[Mike_Sweeney]

It help sell memberships and keeps initation fees high.

Wow, are you off base on this one.   I have played Merion as a guest for 30 years. Is it impossible to believe that they do things for the right reason?

[TEPaul]

MikeS:

Haven't you noticed that ever since Fazio and Macdonald & Co became involved in the Merion bunker project about four years ago there are some on here who can't believe Merion and its membership can possibly do anything right?  

Frankly, that same group seems to feel because Fazio has a connection to PVGC they can't possibly do anything right either.

[Mike_Sweeney]

MikeS:

Haven't you noticed that ever since Fazio and Macdonald & Co became involved in the Merion bunker project about four years ago there are some on here who can't believe it's possible that Merion and its membership can possibly do anything right?  

Tom,

I remember sitting in the Rockin Chair (NLE) in Avalon, NJ after playing Merion and Sand Barrens a couple of years ago with my friends, and yes I questioned the "ice cream cone" bunkering. They told me it was their goal to have it be in shape in time for 2005 Amateur. Based on what I saw in July and recent reports here, it appears that the Membership of Merion may know more about their course than our team here at GCA!

[TEPaul]

"Based on what I saw in July and recent reports here, it appears that the Membership of Merion may know more about their course than our team here at GCA!"

MikeS:

Don't get too carried away there. Do you actually think it's possible that a Merion member could know more about their bunkers than TommyN? Perish the thought pal. Our team here from GCA clearly knows more about Merion's bunkers than anyone at Merion possible could. Unfortunately before cutting loose with a year long scathing diatribe over the Merion bunkers our crack GCA team totally overlooked one minor detail----and that is that grass on bunker surrounds actually needs to grow first.

[Scott_Park]

The director of golf at a future US Am site mentioned to me that it would cost the club about $300K.  

The club has to pay for, among other things, range balls and a banquest for the field.  I believe the USGA contributed a small portion toward the cost, but it was on the order of 10%.

It would be interesting to hear how TV revs and merchandise are factored into hosting an Am.

Scott

[ward peyronnin]

If the cost of holding an amateur concerned them I can't see why they would be stepping up to host the '09 Walker Cup. Unless this is the only way Merion could see the Open return. But I can't believe the USGA wouldn't be just as pleased to see that as  the members and wouldn't "coerce" these lesser venues on that principle.

Ward

[Wayne_Kozun]

In Canada, when Hamilton held the Canadian Open, the members were able to play places like Magna, St. George's and the National while the club was closed. Given a club with the prestige of Merion, I'm sure the members didn't have issue finding games.

I had also heard that the Hamilton members decided that they didn't want to host such tournaments again given the loss of their course but that must have been wrong as they are hosting the BCO again in the near future.

Would you really rather play Magna than Ancaster?  

[JohnV]

The director of golf at a future US Am site mentioned to me that it would cost the club about $300K.  

The club has to pay for, among other things, range balls and a banquest for the field.  I believe the USGA contributed a small portion toward the cost, but it was on the order of 10%.

It would be interesting to hear how TV revs and merchandise are factored into hosting an Am.

Scott

While the costs might be $300K, the clubs usually raise that through donations from members or sponsorships from local and national businesses as opposed to it coming out of the general budget of the club.

[John_Cullum]

Is the 300K a net loss figure? I expect the USGA pays a lease fee. Does the USGA keep all of the money from t-shirt sales too?

The more I think about this, I don't see how the club could actually lose any amount of money. Unless they are going to count the extra money they are laying out for course prep in advance, which theoretically is money they ought to spending anyway. Ultimately the members get the benefit of the improved course after the event is gone. The only real expense is cleaning up after the event is over.

[Adam_Jessie]

Wayne,

In response to your post I would be intersted to see how many golfers actually knew how great the course they were playing actually was. I am willing to bet that the percentage is pretty low.

I can speak form first hand experience from the open in 04 that many of the golfers could care less where they play ( Shinnecock or Torrey Pnes) in simply makes no difference to them.

They view playing golf as a job all they care is if the course has consistent greens and a good lie to play from. This was the same attutude that Mark Michaud found while at Pebble beach. Many players there never showed any excitement about playing pebble beach.

Adam J
Shinnecock Hills