Stableford

[Jonathan Cummings]

A few months ago I was at Bandon with a group of 24 and our leader came up with a rather unique scoring system designed at weeding out sand baggers.  You got points for net par, birdie and eagles but if got a net double eagle you were disqualified!  I though that was an amusing twist.

Stableford is an interesting way to score the pros.  It is somewhere between stroke and match scoring although I doubt it is any better a system of deciding the best player.

JC

[THuckaby2]

JC - man I am thinking way too much like the lawyers I work with, but the first thoughts that occurred to me about your leader's unique scoring system were all about how easy it was to defeat (just miss the putt for your net double eagle - net eagle is always gonna be damn good); and that such situations are rare enough so that the sandbaggers could still have a field day, just making LOTS of net birdies and lots of net eagles.

But I am a sourpuss who believes there is NO system a willful sandbagger can't defeat.  But that does seem like a valiant effort anyway!

As for stableford, I never have liked it much because it depends way too much on the concept of par.  If I make a 4 on a hole it should be scored as 4; not zero on one 475 yard hole and +1 on the next one at 480.  Oh I know it's the same for all the field, I just don't like it, that's all.

 

[David_Tepper]

Personally, I think the Stableford format is the ONLY way to play a stroke-play event involving a large field of handicaps of 10 or more. Chances are, anyone with a double-digit handicap is likely to make at least one triple-bogey a round. Under Stableford, once you know you are making at least a double-bogey, you can pick up and move on the next hole. At the very least, Stableford keeps the field moving along, especially on a course with a lot of hazard stakes.

Tom H. - the Bushmills Causeway Coast event was/is played as a Stableford. I makes a lot of sense when you are trying to get 200 players around a course that no one knows very well.  

[Brent Hutto]

I think I've mentioned before that the men's golf association at my club most often uses a Stableford format for our weekly events. They don't do it "correctly" with net pars and net double-bogeys and so forth. They assign points with one point for a gross bogey, two for a gross par and so forth and if you are going to make double-bogey or worse you pick up and get no points. Then you add you handicap strokes to the total.

In theory that should move things along at better than our usual glacial 4:45-ish pace but there's at least one or two players in each foursome who hole out everything, even for a ten on a Par 4, no matter what the format. Pencil pushers and slow play... cause and effect? I think so.

[THuckaby2]

David - oh I know it makes sense for large events for a lot of reasons.  I just don't like it PERSONALLY, that's all.  I just have this thing against par as a concept... to me it's always been a fictitious, relative figure, useful for ascertaining standing in televised tournaments, but without much use in everyday golf.  I really think it hurts more than it helps in the overall scheme of things.  

So a scoring system so closely tied to the concept is always going to be chap my hide, so to speak.

But that being said, I'd play in the Bushmill's if they scored it based on height, weight and astrological sign.  That is one legenday event... and a life goal, I might add....

TH

[Chris Kane]

I'd estimate that around 3/4 of all club competitions in Australia (most clubs have between 3 and 5 competitions per week) are played using stableford format.  

0 points for a net double-bogey or worse
1 point for a net bogey
2 points for a net par
3 points for a net birdie
4 points for a net eagle
etc.

This format works well, as weaker players pick up when they can no longer score, and good players will come out with a "medal" score at the end provided they avoid a net triple bogey.

When you take into account shots allocated for handicap, par doesn't really come into it at all (ie. a 6 marker will likely get a shot on a 490yd par 4, but won't on a 500yd par 5).

[THuckaby2]

Damn. I love Australia and I've yet to meet an Aussie I didn't like.

So if they do play 3/4 of their competitions at stableford, well I guess then I'm gonna defer and say I'm wrong, it must be a fine way to play.  All those cool Aussies simply can't be wrong.

I still hate the concept of par, though.  

 

[Jack_Marr]

Just about everything is played Stabelford in Ireland. It also allows players play aggressive shots. If you played a strokes competition on a windy day in the European Club, nobody would return a score.

Do you ever play "versus par" in the U.S.? It's another format that eliminated the outside shots. You get 0 for a net par, +1 for a net birdie or better and -1 for a bogie or worse.

[David_Tepper]

Jack -

I would not presume to know the full range of various club golf events across the U.S., but my sense is that the Stableford format is rarely used. I would venture that the "versus par" format is used even less or not at all.

Unless it is match play, almost all club events (scratch, handicap, alternate shot, scramble, whatever) in the U.S. result in posting some sort of medal score (gross or net) for 18 holes. For better or worse, that is the way it is here.

If I am mistaken, I would be delighted to hear about it!

DT



 

[Jack_Marr]

David,

Maybe that's why the produce the likes of Tiger Woods. I think Stableford means everyone can compete.

[David_Tepper]

Jack -

I am not too sure one has much to do with the other!

But speaking of Tiger, I think his winning 3 USGA Juniors and 3 US Amateurs in six years could still prove to be his most impressive achievement. Surviving 6 rounds of match play six years in a row  is not easy.

DT  

[peter_p]

Sir Thomas of Huckaby,
Why are you stuck on its fourth definition? The number one defition of par is "equality of value".
I've enjoyed playing stablefords, I think a little differently than normal play. Par and bogey competitions are tougher
because the handicap hole allocations aren't strictly based on actual hole difficulty

[JohnV]

Brent,  sounds like you are playing Stableford the way it is normally played.  See Chris' post or Rule 32 in the rules book.  Your club has defined the "fixed score" as bogey which is what most clubs do.

The "modified" Stableford used by the pros makes sense for them as they make lots of low numbers and few big ones.  The normal Stableford scoring for them would end up with almost the same result as a stroke play event as there are few scores over double bogey in a week and it would actually reward the guy who makes a couple of them by making him more competitive.  The version used on tour makes everyone try to shoot for birdies and eagles as they are worth proportionally more.

Stableford works very well on courses with lots of places where balls can be lost as they allow play to move along more quickly.  The nice thing is that you don't have to complete the hole once you get to a certain number as opposed to a stroke play competition.  There is one course in our area where my boss has said we would use it if we were ever crazy enough to have a tournament there.  Needless to say, it will go nameless.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Damn, look at who placed up there in the International.  Looooooong hitters like Howell, Goosen and Keuhne.  I wonder if this is the format or just the high elevations that favor the bombers?

JC

[Mike McGuire]

We play a couple events a year with what we call a quota point.

6 or 8 pts eagle : 4 birdie : 2 par : 1 bogie : 0 points double or worse.

Your quota is 36 (18 pars x 2 for scratch) minus your handicap. Your points compared to your quota is your result. A 5 handicap that gets 30 points would be minus or short  1.

Seems to give the low handicap a chance while keeping the higher cap interested.

If you have a two day event you can adjust the 2nd day quota  based on the results of day one.

I have heard of guys in Florida using this as their primary handicap system

[William King]

I think I've mentioned before that the men's golf association at my club most often uses a Stableford format for our weekly events. They don't do it "correctly" with net pars and net double-bogeys and so forth. They assign points with one point for a gross bogey, two for a gross par and so forth and if you are going to make double-bogey or worse you pick up and get no points. Then you add you handicap strokes to the total.

We used to play this type format @ our men's league in StL, the pro called it a Stableford Quota system. Also he only accepted scores from league play to est. your handicap. One was off scratch for the first for rounds. Kept things moving and was most enjoyable.

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