Why isn't Angel's Crossing ever discussed?

[Brian_Gracely]

I still kick myself for not playing Angel's Crossing last year on my cross-country trip....last minute change of roads took me away from the course.  

But while Wild Horse and Rustic Canyon are frequently praised for their public access, low cost fees, and architecture, AC is almost never mentioned on here.  Why not?  While it wasn't designed by MacRaynorShovel, it does have many of the signature holes (or interpretations).  

Plenty of folks get to Chicago, and Lost Dunes / Dunes Club, and Detroit, so why aren't we hearing more about a course that seems (at least on paper) to have all the elements that folks on this board seem to favor?  Does it not have the cache of a private club, or not close enough to be a side-trip from another "great" club?  Why aren't the treehouse gang or the raters talking about it??

It seems to me that a great GCA outing would be a weekend split between Warren Course and Angel's Crossing.  Wasn't this discussed last year?  Did it ever happen?

[PThomas]

good timing Sandbox, as I shall be playing there tomorrow morning...I will report back

[Pete Buczkowski]

Brian:

I think you hit the reason why its not discussed more...there are other new courses by GCA's favorite designers that this site's posters play when they are in the area in lieu of AC.

I was fortunate enough to get around with Jim at AC 2 weeks ago.  AC is a very nice course that should be a slam dunk for best new affordable this year.  Jim is a very gracious host and I encourage anybody in the area to give him a call and see the course.

My favorite hole is #7 - the long 2-shotter sweeps from right to left, with the ideal tee shot played to the crest of the hill right of the fairway.  Any drive short of the hill will have a blind approach.  From there, a mid to long iron (or in my case, a 3 wood  ) is played to one of the most interesting greens on the course, that angles from left to right.  The ground encourages a running shot coming in from short left of the green.

[Craig Van Egmond]

So why don't you tell us about Angel's Crossing:   Public? Private? Cool holes?  Nice routing?  Architect?   Why should people check it out?

Is this the one you are talking about?  Nice website.

 http://www.golfangelscrossing.com/default.asp?active_page_id=1

Gotta like those weekend rates: $44.00 (includes cart)

[Jim Thompson]

Thanks so much for the kind words guys!  They are sincerely appreciated.

I’ve never been one to blow my own horn, so to speak, and certainly don’t want to be labeled as one who joined the site for the sake of self promotion.  I am, however, very willing to answer any questions anybody might have.

Craig,

Angels Crossing is a public golf club that offers a limited number of annual memberships.  I feel all of our holes are pretty cool, but I’m a bit biased.  We did about six different routings and choose the one that gave us the best set of 18 holes.  To learn about the ones that got away you’ll have to come up and ride around as there is no way I tell the story without using my hands and the architectural sign language I Learned from Bruce.  Our architect is W. Bruce Matthews III, grandson of W. Bruce Matthews I who worked with Stiles and VanKleek before going on his own, and nephew of Jerry Matthews.  Our rates are one dimensional as we do not do any discounting for “time of day or time of life” (see rates section of our website).  Carts are complimentary, not included.  Improper use of a cart results in its immediate revocation at our course.

It has been a busy weekend.  Played with Rick Holland and Ralph Livingston Saturday.  Ralph brought a set of hickories for me to play with and it was a blast.  I think I’m hooked.  Thanks Ralph!  Played with Paul Thomas this morning for a very pleasant round.  Ken Fry, John Foster, and Pete Buczkokowski have been out as well.  I certainly hope a good time has been had by all.  I expect Andy Silis to be showing up any day.  He’ll want to check out the new bunker “Zinfandel” we put in on eight inspired by a good meal and a great bottle last season.

I’m game to host any outing, event, or get together tee sheet permitting.  Just drop a line.

I do the website myself and update it pretty regularly.  Am currently working on a My Home Course submission, but am struggling with sounding like to much of a homer.

Greens: L93
Tees and Fairways: L93 & Southshore 50/50 by weight
Roughs: Inner and Outer custom blends
Natives: 8 selected prairie varieties
Inspirations for course styling:  1910-1920 MacDonaldesque.  Thanks George!

Fire away with questions.

Cheers!

JT

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sandbox,
I think its because of some of the people involved with Angels Crossing....

Jim Thompson, Wasn't Jerry Matthews "The Beaver?"

[Jim Thompson]

Tommy,

The beaver was Jerry Mathers.

JT

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Well where then does Hugh Beaumont figure into all of this?

I hope to see Angels Crossing--soon, or my standing in the Shooter/DeVries/Crazy Joe Hancock fan club will be revoked.

[David Wigler]

Tommy,

If you are actually threatening to come to Michigan, than I will - For a short while at least - switch from lurker back to poster and join you at AC for a game.  When are you thinking of making the trip?

[David Wigler]

PS - Tommy - I can tell you from the work Bruce is currently doing at my beloved Plum Hollow that the man is really talented!

[Joe Hancock]

I hope to see Angels Crossing--soon, or my standing in the Shooter/DeVries/Crazy Joe Hancock fan club will be revoked.

Tommy,

I'm heading out to Redlands again tomorrow, so you better be planning to get together this week or my standing in The Emporers fan club may be withdrawn....

Joe

[Craig Van Egmond]

Jim,

    Thank you very much for the update on Angel's Crossing, from what I have seen on the website it looks pretty good. Does it play firm and fast? Does it allow for some ground game options?  These things seem to intrigue some of the gang at GCA.  

[Pete Buczkowski]

So why don't you tell us about Angel's Crossing:   Public? Private? Cool holes?  Nice routing?  Architect?   Why should people check it out?

Is this the one you are talking about?  Nice website.

 http://www.golfangelscrossing.com/default.asp?active_page_id=1

Gotta like those weekend rates: $44.00 (includes cart)

Craig:

You hit the right website...that and Jim's response should answer most of your questions.

As to why you should play - there are many reasons.  First off, Jim has pulled off something that most of the GCA particpants only dream of...he built his own course from the ground up.  I found it fascinating listening to Jim talk about the course construction and development.  

As for the course - I'd say the dominant feature is the large, boldly contoured greens.  There are a lot of really great greens:  my favs were 7, 8, 10, & 17.  For instance, the 17th is a reachable par 5 that winds around wetlands left of the fairway.  The green is open from the right, and that appears to be the safest spot to approach from.  However, the bold contours dictate the best place to approach the green.  A spine runs down the center, the back is much higher than the front, and the back right is raised up and kicks balls to the center.  So, the safe layup right of the green would not be good position if the pin is back right.  Missing long leaves a very tricky pitch back to the hole, especially if you are on the wrong side of the center spine.  

The course is meant for F&F conditions, which the super also supports.  There's a lot of strategy to the course and very good green complexes.  IMO its a Doak 6 but I could see 7, which I think is damn good for an affordable public course.  If it were in central FL they'd be getting $120+ for it.  I imagine it would get better with more plays as well, since there is so much in the greens.  I'm just not astute enough to take it all in from one play riding a cart.

Pete

[Nate Golomb]

As a current employee for Jim in the golf shop at Angels Crossing (he got me hooked on GCA...) I join Jim in saying thanks for the comments and hopefully look forward to meeting/seeing more of you out to Angels Crossing the remainder of the summer or next...

I'm also not here to gloat and promote the golf course, but rather to learn more about golf architecture, hear others opinions, and maybe voice my own a bit...but I can tell you that I have learned more about course management and obviously architecture from talks with Jim about Angels Crossing in the last two years. Seeing the project from opening day until now has been a fantastic learning experience for me and everyone here would truly enjoy spending a round of golf at Angels Crossing with Jim.

I am fortunate as well to be able to view the course as part of the general public as I have lived in the area for the past 15 years. There is not another golf course like Angels Crossing in the immediate area, much less southwest Michigan. The course features renditions of many of GCA's favorite hole designes...A 250 yard redan from the back tee, a ~200 yard rendition of a biarritz, cape holes, cardinal bunkers, very large greens, and bold bunkering. The course does play firm and fast and features five sets of tees ranging from 4850 to 7150 yards. Pete is exactly right in his comment about playing the course more and more because of the ever changing hole locations. You must think your way around the course to score well. The course has also led me to learning the ground game and attempting (I still need more practice) to run shots up on several holes...And believe me, when you do it right, it winds up better than a wedge and is 10 times more fun. I look forward to seeing more of you head out to Angels Crossing in the small town of Vicksburg, Michigan and possibly hitting the links with you...

Here's a couple photos I've taken of the course...(better photos can be viewed at http://www.golfangelscrossing.com)


Hole #1 looking back from the green



The green on #17 that Pete spoke about, looking back to the fairway...



View from right of #18 Green overlooking the river below...



PS - If anyone would like to see more photos of the course send myself or Jim a message and we would be happy to help (sorry Jim if you get 1500 requests   )

[Andy Silis]

Jim!

I should be in your neck of the woods again in late July or early August. Another record year for Tour Edge Golf so I've been busy beyond belief! We start our National Sales Meeting today at Bay Hill so I'll be bringing along some new toys for you to try when I visit. Of course we'll have to do dinner with another great bottle of wine afterwards. Some traditions just have to be maintained! Really looking forward to seeing the new bunker "Zinfandel" on number 8. Who knows what may evolve after hopefully another great bottle(s) this year. I would imagine with the weather we have been having, the course is playing really firm and fast. Can't wait!

Andy Silis

P.S. For those GCA members who are not that familiar with Angels Crossing, I strongly urge you to make an effort to visit and play. In my humble opinion Jim and his brother have created one of the finest affordable golf courses in the entire country. Most private clubs would be beating their chests  and lobbying to be included in Top 100 lists if they had the kind of course Bruce Mathews and Jim have created. Angels Crossing should be a model for the type of golf courses that need to be built nationwide to further this grand old game!

P.S.S. Jim gave me a tour last year of the third nine that's under construction. As phenomenal as the original 18 is, this nine could be the best of the bunch! Like the Heinz commercial says; "Anticipaaaaation" !!!

[RJ_Daley]

I confess that I leaked out of one group effort to go over to Michigan to have a go at Jim's course.  I also feel very strongly that Jim has lived out the obvious dream of many that participate on GCA.com by commiting wholeheartedly in his project.  I remember Jim's postings in the run-up days to the start of construction.  He was full of hope and enthusiasm.  One knew by the sentiments he was expressing then that he was going to bring in a quality project.  Jim is a darn well spoken and balanced voice in our little GCA community.  We really need to get a group gathering there at AC as you really can't go wrong nor be disappointed with the kind of thought that went into the project.  Jim did it very right.

I personally think that early Oct. with fall color breaking out would be a special time to get a gang together.

[PThomas]

had the pleasure of playing AC with Jim yesterday, and I certainly encourage others to do the same..Jim's a great host and playing partner, and pretty funny as well (ask him about the guy who was hitting the ball fat all day...)

kudos to Jim and his brother for having the cajones to go out on their own and build their own course, which seemed to me to be Jim's tribute to some of the great courses across the pond

you get fooled on the drive to it......on the way you drive past some farms, which made me think "Did I just drive 2.5 hours to come play another fairly non-descript golf course built on an old farm?"  the answer is a DEFINITE NO!

AC is built on a grand scale, reminding me of the Blackwolf Run courses and Royal New Kent...in addition, there is no housing out there to spoil the day, and it is QUIET:  the only thing you hear is some nearby trains and the frogs...

it's also amazing that the green fee is only $44, with or without cart....a course of this stature would surely be getting at least twice that in the Chicago market

the course features very fun, gigantic, St. Andrews-like greens with lots of slope and contour(that are also in great shape, btw)...the Biarritz at the par3 6th, the Royal St George green at the par 4 10th, the 70 yard long, 20 feet (?) wide 18th, etc...

some of my other favorite features out there:  

- the 5 bunkers in the middle of the fairway  near the green at the par 4 5th;

- Jim's Redan at the par 3 12th - 258 from the back for you big boys! -- but one can play safe to the right if one chooses;

- the bunkerless par 4 13th, with woods down the left side and a very strategic tree guarding the right side;

- the par 5 17th , reachable in two from the backs at 539 if you flirt with your second sliding back down the hill to a nasty bunker, and with the green seeming to be hanging on for dear life as your view it from the tee;

- and I think my favorite hole out there, which I think surprised Jim:  the par 4 11th, 398 from all the way back...a bit of a dogleg right that tempts one to bang straight at the pin..but woe to those who miss it right as a big nasty bunker guards the green...from the tee the fairway is huge with lots of room to the left..too much so it appears, which makes you want to go to the right...which of course makes you flirt with big trouble

my only regret is that the course didn't play firm and fast, as it received 4 inches of rain in the prior 3 days....I can only imagine how more fun those green complexes would be in those conditions

Jim has admirably refrained from posting pictures as he doesn't want to seem pushy, but I hope he does, because I'm sure others would appreciate seeing some of the great features out there

bottom line:  if you get the chance you should definitely go play AC!!

[Jim Thompson]

Paul,

Here's some pics for you and the gang:

#4 from right rough


#5 from approach


#11 tee shot


#11 approach


#12 tee shot


#13 tee


#13 approach


#13 green from right


#14 green look back


#17 tee shot


#17 from perfect tee shot


#18 tee shot


#18 approach


#18 green look back


The flags aren't really crooked.  That's just the wind we get in the afternoon. Shots of 11 through 18 were taken when we were still green on June 6.  First to shots were taken last week.

Cheers!

JT

[Peter Pratt]

Jim,

I have a 10 am tee time August 2nd--will you be around the club that day? I'd love to say hello.

Peter

[Jim Thompson]

Pete,

Enjoy your round.  I'm up here in God's country, Petosky, until August 4.  Let me know how it goes.

Andy,

I'll be back the on the 4th.  I hope this works out on your schedule.

Cheers!

JT

[Andy Troeger]

Jim,
  Great pictures of the course. I'm looking forward to making the trip up from South Bend on August 14th to play. I've heard nothing but good things from people down here who have already been.

[RSLivingston_III]

If I may add my voice, I can recommend a trip to see AC. It is worth it just to see some of the greens.
I would like to have another go at the Redan.
Ralph

[Ken Fry]

Jim Thompson is a great host and Angels Crossing is a great course.

Jim and Bruce Mathews did some wonderful stuff at this place.  Make it a point to go see AC for yourself.  I even showed Jim a new way to play a redan!

Ken