Obscure Top 10 Ranking

[Greg Holland]

Recently, "American Heritage" produced a supplement, "Playing Through - The Rise of American Golf."  In it, Al Barkow, author and former Golf magazine editor, listed his top 10 classic courses (old and new), limited only to courses he had personally played.  With his list, he also had some interesting comments (which I have excerpted below) about some of the courses.  I'm interested in this groups reaction.  

The list, in no particular order he indicated, was:

1.  Olympic Club (Lake Course) - "penned in by ... trees", "terrain mimics the ups and downs of the city"
2.  Shinnecock Hills - "as close to true Scottish Links as can be found in the US"
3.  Pine Valley - "unique example of punitive course architecture"  "every hole demands a consequential carry"  "fairways are wide, but the approach shots are monumental challenges"
4.  TPC at Sawgrass - "a full examination of one's game"  
5.  Cog Hill (Dubsdread) - "mid-American masterpiece"  "18 surprisingly animated holes" "Wilson was an artist of the dogleg"
6.  The Knoll (East) - "sleeper"  "best work of Banks"
7.  Pinehurst No. 8 - "No.2 is a long recognized classic, but Tom Fazio's newer No. 8 has the same qualities with fairer putting surfaces"
8.  The Dunes - "intriquing, thoughtful shorter holes"  "subtly raised greens that have just the right degree of undulation"  "sharply defined bunkers perfectly placed" "splendid variety of shapes and sizes" "perhaps the best of" RTJ, Sr.
9.  Quaker Ridge - "this is the best course A.W. Tillinghast ever built"
10.  Merion (East) "old classic supposedly outmoded by today's equipment.  Bah!"  "wonderful commingling of strapping par 4s and 5s and engaging shorter holes"

[rpurd]

I think he has nailed a few especially Quaker Ridge.......I love Winged Foot West but QR is a better challenge.  There is no doubting Merion or Shinnecock either.  Cog Hill is very underrated also.

[austin]

Anyone who thinks #8 is better than Pinehurst #2 has no credibility in my eyes.  #8 is not even Fazio's best course in Pinehurst.

[Greg Holland]

Austin,
I agree that Forest Creek is probably better than No. 8, but this is not the first time the greens of No. 2 have been disparaged.  Many "mainstream" golfers would agree with the comment.  Several of my best friends did not enjoy No. 2 at all, because of the "umbrella like greens."

[Donald Ross]

DITTO

[TEPaul]

I think those are some very interesting comments. I don't know all those courses enough to have a feeling about some of the things he said but I would love to hear more detailed comments by an analyst like that and certainly even hole by hole in detail.

Interesting comment about Quaker Ridge (another course I don't know well).

I also happen to think Shinnecock could be the finest all around golf course in the States but calling it "as close to a true Scotish links course as can be found in the US" is not an accurate description of it, in my opinion.

Also, saying about Pine Valley "every hole demands a consequential carry" is not accurate unless someone is not capable of hitting tees shots more than about 175 yards.

[Jeff Fortson]

The reason Pinehurst #2 is great is because of the green complexes.  The course is not extremely hilly with a few holes being the exception.  Without the "umbrella type greens" the course would not be anywhere near the top on anyone's list in my opinion.  I think the greens make the course.  #2 puts all the others at Pinehurst to shame.

I can understand how some might not enjoy watching their ball ricochet off in a strange direction or roll off some part of the green where they didn't realize it would roll, but that is golf.  I think it brings in such a great element of chance at times and precision demand at others.  I give #2 "2 thumbs up" no pun intended.

Jeff F.

[brad_miller]

Have played 7 off these and can only agree on 3 comments, and plainly disagre on  at least 3, although PV and SH are clearly deserving but for different reasons. But isn't this what makes a market?

[redanman]

Have played all but the Dunes.  Some of the comments on hte comments are right on. (SH, O, CH#4, M Ea).  Picking Tillie's "best" is a personal choice at best.

Barkow always has been a little short in the neuron department anyway, but the Pinehurst #8 comment and said inclusion absolutely stupefies me.  This removes any sense of credibility from this list.  Embarassing, for a golf "expert".  Pathetic, even.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Bill,

We complement each other.  The only course on the list I've played is The Dunes.  Almost played 2 more of them, whatever that means.  One due to a plane delay, the other I'm not sure why.  I think something came up.

The Dunes is my fave RTJ, Sr. design I've played, edging out Mauna Kea, then probably Tanglewood Park, Duke U.(routing, Rees renovation), and Lodge of Four Seasons.

[redanman]

Scott

P #8 falls into category 2 or maybe 3 (Modified wine classes)

1-I'll play (drink) it
2-I won't play (drink) it
3-I'll play (drink) it if someone else pays!  

For your first time, probably a 3.  After that a 2, as there are many many more to play instead of playing it again.