[David Sneddon]

First of all, full disclosure - I'm in the synthetic turf installation business.  My business is mostly residential - putting greens, pool surrounds etc.

Since cart paths are included in most designs, have any of the architects on this forum considered using artificial (synthetic) grass as an alternative to asphalt or concrete cart paths??  

On the upside:
It would make the cart paths less unsightly
No bad bounces
You can play from the cart path

On the downside there would be some maintenance involved, and possible replacement in very high traffic areas.

[Doug Siebert]

I'd think it'd be down to cost.  You'd pretty much have to pave the areas you wanted to install turf on, wouldn't you, except maybe in the desert.  And then you have whatever that much turf would cost (my quick and dirty guess would be that it'd be equal in area to about two football fields worth for 8000 yards of path)

I guess I'm a bit surprised to not be seeing it at the places that cost $200/round.  But I'm still surprised that Muirfield is about the only place I can ever recall seeing turf glued onto the sprinkler heads to keep them from affecting play as much or looking so out of place, and that sure couldn't have cost much to do.  Maybe the developers think people expect to see miles of concrete and dozens of little black circles on every hole and don't think it is worth it to spend money to fix that if they can add another 10000 sq ft to the clubhouse instead?

[RJ_Daley]

Wouldn't the wear pattern be similar to turf on the spots where one enters onto and exits from the artificial turf path.  Wouldn't those points get the heck chewed out of them in no time, even if you varied dispersal from or onto the artificial?

So, how would you spec them out.  What underlying material, cement?  How much $$$ for 8000 yards of 4ft wide with underlying sub-turf to glue it down to?

[David Sneddon]

Wouldn't the wear pattern be similar to turf on the spots where one enters onto and exits from the artificial turf path.  Wouldn't those points get the heck chewed out of them in no time, even if you varied dispersal from or onto the artificial?

So, how would you spec them out.  What underlying material, cement?  How much $$$ for 8000 yards of 4ft wide with underlying sub-turf to glue it down to?

No cement required - you would use gravel as the base.  Depending on the soil, approx 6" of 0-3/4 with 4" of 0-0 compacted.

Turf is cut and laid, then infilled with a sand/rubber mix. Turf would be approx 2 1/2" pile height, filled with 1 1/2" of infill.  I'd say cost would be in the $9-12 per sq ft, including base.

I'd think that you'd get at least three - five years out of high traffic areas, but I have no actual data to establish if it would be more or less.

[David Sneddon]

Doug:

See my reply to RJ re: costs.

The turf is laid down over the gravel base and the weight of the infill - approx 8lbs/sq ft is more than enough to keep the turf in place - no glue required.

They were laying artificial turf at St Andrews last year on the high traffic area between greens and tees.  But then again they already
have some nice clubhouses :-)

I'm not talking about the artificial grass you see at the golf store which looks more like cheap carpet - this is the really good stuff - very similar indeed to what is used on sports fields.

[Tom_Doak]

In Japan before the crash, a lot of the newer courses were using a synthetic rubber material over the top of the cart paths which eliminated the noise of cleats on asphalt and provided a much softer bounce should a ball come down on the path.

Unfortunately, it cost about $750,000 for 18 holes on top of the path construction itself, so it never caught on here in the States.

The problem with synthetic turf for the paths is one of color matching ... they would look terrible if the color was a different shade than the golf turf.  And most courses don't keep the same color of turf year-round.

[David Sneddon]

In Japan before the crash, a lot of the newer courses were using a synthetic rubber material over the top of the cart paths which eliminated the noise of cleats on asphalt and provided a much softer bounce should a ball come down on the path.

Unfortunately, it cost about $750,000 for 18 holes on top of the path construction itself, so it never caught on here in the States.

The problem with synthetic turf for the paths is one of color matching ... they would look terrible if the color was a different shade than the golf turf.  And most courses don't keep the same color of turf year-round.

Now that you mention it the colour match would be the biggest problem .  I don't think the cost would be prohibitive, though.

[tomgoutman]

At my club (Torresdale in Philly), they have put in, and continue to add, (seemingly) acres of asphalt cart paths. I would like to propose some alternatives. We can't get rid of the paths (at least not all of them) because the largely older members simply won't walk. Any suggestions for alternatives to asphalt?

[Jim Thompson]

When the ends of the paths are managed, wear is greatly diminished.  I strongly recommend anyone with path end wear to take for rope sockets and install one at each corner of the end of the path, with the other two four to six feet back along the side of the path.  Move in x pattern - left & right, and open end once a week and the wear is instantly spread out.

x = socket
\, /, & rope pattern

Week 1-           Week 2-        Week 3-

x |       | x      x |       | x      x |       |  x
   |\      |           |     /|         \ |      |\
   |  \    |           |    / |         \ |      |\
   |    \  |           |   /  |         \ |      |\
   |      \|           |  /   |         \ |      |\
 x |       |x        x|/     |x        x|       |x

Traffic -
    Left                Right             Center

[Doug Siebert]

In Japan before the crash, a lot of the newer courses were using a synthetic rubber material over the top of the cart paths which eliminated the noise of cleats on asphalt and provided a much softer bounce should a ball come down on the path.

Unfortunately, it cost about $750,000 for 18 holes on top of the path construction itself, so it never caught on here in the States.

The problem with synthetic turf for the paths is one of color matching ... they would look terrible if the color was a different shade than the golf turf.  And most courses don't keep the same color of turf year-round.

Couldn't you use a mottled color scheme that incorporates several colors from the spectrum of normal colors the course will achieve during the various seasons or due to the surrounding areas such as native grasses, trees, desert sands, etc.?  Couple that with keeping the paths in the shade where possible to reduce their visibility and they won't stand out too much.  Same theory as the use of camouflage in the military.

Not saying they'll "disappear", but it isn't as though the standard concrete path looks very good on a typical course, so I'm not sure even an artificial turf path with a noticeably different shade of green than the grass is going to look worse, so just about anything is going to be an improvement!

[brad_miller]

I have seen a few attempts to paint cart paths some shade of green, have even seen it done to wood steps, in both cases the pavement and/or steps look much better in there natural state.

[David Sneddon]

Doug and Tom:

I'm going to find out if the plant can manufacture the turf in varying shades of green and I'll get back to you when I have the answer.

As you pointed out, Doug, although a one colour turf would'nt match the surrounding grass for some of the year, I think the colour would be more pleasing than black asphalt or white concrete.

Another point is playability - you can play the ball from the artificial turf, although "nearest point of relief" would still be an option.  Similarly with a ball landing on a synthetic path, there would be no more bounces into the woods, since it would play like a natural grass surface.

[Doug Siebert]

Well, you can play the ball from a concrete path as well (so long as it doesn't settle against the grass or in a saw groove....that would make it more difficult)  That's the beauty of using a 16 year old set of irons

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