Is the Biarritz dead?

[Geoffrey Childs]

I'll be interested to hear George Bahto's take on this, however, it was my understanding that Biarritz holes were to be "heroic" carries over a chasm or simulated one (the lake at Yale).  Most or all built by MacDonald, Raynor and Banks were originally over 200 yards in length whcih was a wood shot back then.  It would have been a requirement to hit the front section short of the swale, watch it disappear in the swale and reappear on the back level with the pin.  

With new equipment and an aerial game, the play has obviously changed but the short game and putting requirements of the biarritz remain fun and challenging.  I watched a group in the womens club championship at Yale last season hit their woods exactly as described above and I stood and applauded after I saw the ball disappear in the swale and reappear on the back level near the pin. It was fun to see.

So I guess the question remains if a 125-160 yard hole can be  "biarritz" but a green such as that puts emphasis on distance control and subsequent putting. My guess it is a fun hole at Bandon Trails and I look forward to playing.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Allan Long,

I would suggest the creation of qualifying standards for a Biarritz, which would be accomplished by measuring all of the CBM, SR and CB's Biarritz's, to establish a minimum configuration necessary to categorize a hole as a true, versus a hybrid or pseudo Biarritz.

George Bahto,

It's been some time since I played the Biarritz at Essex County West.   How does it compare to The Knolls ?

Fifty years ago the hole played from a highly elevated tee,  which reminded me of Yale, but, a lower tee was established and put into use about 50 years ago, which altered approaching ball flight.   Have you seen or played it recently ?

[George_Bahto]

Patrick - Essex County West's Biarritz vs Knoll:

There is no comparison at all Pat.

The West Course of Essex county CC (now Francis Byrne - a county muni).

Yes, originally the 2nd hole, their Biarritz, was played from a very high tee-box with 225 yardage (short for a Biarritz) and the wind did move the ball around a lot. Could be one of the worse versions.

They dropped to a lower tee and the hole went to about 200.

The green was/is ground level, the associated bunkers are very shallow and the swale never was very deep, even going back to the 60's when I played it.

It was just a "long par-3" to most players - not a very good version.

When Banks did the upper course (the East course - private) he made a different twist to Biarritz. He angled the green about 20 degrees off the line of play and every player had to carry a long string of bunkers set on a diagonal to get to the fairway or the green.

I've got 3 of those bunkers back in and hope one day to get the entire string of bunkers re-established. This one is a one-of-a kind Biarrtiz as is 17 at Westhampton.

The Knoll has all the original features that were put in to Biarritz greens and is the only green I've seen that has them - including to ridges that shunted the ball left or right that are in the approach area/green.

[Mike_Cirba]

Uncle George,

It appears from the Essex County history and original drawing of the early Tillinghast course that the Biarritz green in question was there in Tillie's design, playing as a downhill par four from the top of the hill.

That would explain the odd angle of the Banks hole and I'm also assuming that he created the string of bunkers.  It's unclear whether Tillie's version had the patented "dip" (probably not), but it's clearly the same greensite.

Rick Wolffe, Mark Chalfant, and I spent a good deal of time looking for remnants of the original routing and that one stood out.  

[George_Bahto]

I think a Biarritz-style green, one with some sort of depression running through it is totally different than a Biarritz hole.

There are many swales built in a long green ......... Geoffrey C, Mike Cirba and I played Pete Dye's Bulle Rock a year and a half or so ago. He had a fairly long green on 18 with a swale thru it.

Biarritz's built by CBM, SR and Banks had single tees, were seldom under 225 yards in length unless specified by the  clubs (Fishers Island and Blind Brook come to mind) and were full-blown beasts that had to be played along the ground to reach the putting areas unless you were downwind. most of these holes were built at 235-yards from the MIDDLE of the single tee.

The equivalent today might be a Biarritz of 300 yards or more, par

Along the same line of thinking (we've spoken about this before), to simulate agood Redan today it should be BARELY reachable on the fly by the best players. When the bulk of golden age Redans were built the better players were only carrying the ball 180-190 yards in the air.

So now you had sort of speed-putt bounding of the ball up and on to the greens; if hit at the "right" speed the ball would take the break off the hill and work in to the green; if too aggressive an approach, you would "fire" right through the mounded area and end up in the rear or side bunkering.

...........   so it is another great strategy virtually lost because now we're (not me) deciding whether to hit 6, 7 or 8 iron to the Redan.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Original Redans and Biarritz' sounded like tough half-par holes.

[Geoffrey Childs]

George

Tony Pioppi will be insulted.  Not because you forgot he was our third at Bulle Rock last year on the way back from the Seth Raynor Society meetings but because you substituted him with a lefty  

The only problem with a 300 yard biarritz is that most people don't have vision enough to see the ball disappear in the swale and reappear - that's the fun.