Best course in a lousy setting or with lousy views

[Pete Stankevich]

As good as Wannamoissett is, it is lacking in both views and setting.  Some of the streets and houses you see on the perimeter of the course are pretty rough.
And although Yale is tucked away in the woods at the end of a dead-end street, the roads you have to drive on the way in aren't what you might expect.

[wsmorrison]

Rolling Green GC in Springfield, Delaware County, PA was once among beautiful Delaware County farmland, it is now surrounded and in a few places squeezed by split-level homes.  At times the sites over the fence are a bit detracting, but the golf course itself is so good it overcomes so much of it.  As Tom said earlier, you get inured to it.

[Joe Andriole]

Seaton Carew -- wonderful links;dreadful surrounds

[paul cowley]

 Who cares about the din if the golf is good....hell , who said even bad golf should be less the din ....who said golf needs to be in a pristine , quiet environment, with chirping birds in the background and lovely views all abound....

oh, and I hate that noisey pacific surf....give me a break

...or a jackhammer or jetplane if the golf is good.

[Steve Sayers]

I’ve got to toss LuLu CC into the mix…

Busy roads in play on 5 holes including one that bisects the course
Undesirable neighborhood adjoining property
A strip club just off the 3rd tee (I’ve been told   before the shutters were put up one could enjoy the entertainment and watch people tee off)

Despite the setting and urban noise, the course is filled with quirk and interest.

Not bad for sitting on just over 100 acres!

[wsmorrison]

Steve,

You never told me about the strip club!  What kind of host are you  

[Kyle Harris]

Wayne, with the exception of the walk between 5 and 6, you really don't notice what surrounds the course at Rolling Green, and some of set backs are amazingly close, but you just don't realize it.

Steve/Wayne,

That is indeed a strip club off the third tee at Lu Lu, if you're talking about the one off Jenkintown Ave...  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Commonwealth National in Horsham, PA. The Willow Grove Naval Air Station is the northern boundary and busy Horsham Road is the southern boundary. Hatboro-Horsham High School is across the road and football Saturdays bring out the marching band. Also, the office buildings interspaced on between some holes don't help the ambiance. If this course were in the middle of nowhere, it's a much better course without the distractions.

Also, Dye's Karsten Course at Arizona State U. was built on a waste land backdropped by a power plant.

[Kyle Harris]

Steve,

Commonwealth does lose a lot on the middle of the front nine from about 4 to 8, but that back nine more than makes up for the crappy location, IMO.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Kyle

You're right about the back 9 at CN but remember that 11 features an office building on the left of the fairway and the road to the right of the green and 12 tee is along the road. 13 to 18 are somewhat isolated. Still, the airplane noise can be a distraction at times.

[Tim_Weiman]

George,

I agree with those who cite Prestwick. When I first saw it, a Northern New Jersey landfill came to mind.

My thought was "why did I fly across the pond to see this".

But then I thought to myself "there must be more to this place than first meets the eye" ......and I proceeded to walk the course........by the famous 3rd hole I was seduced.

Very disappointed I haven't been back to Prestwick in about 15 years.

[Kyle Harris]

Steve,

I guess the airplane noise doesn't bug me all too much, having grown up around it all my life (NAWC was in the back of my elementary school, and F-14s taking off there before it closed is etched in my memory). But I forgot about the first few holes (included the one of your ace) still being on that side of Babylon Road.

[Buck Wolter]

Just outside East St. Louis Illinois is Gateway National I think it's actually Granite City, IL. A very nice Keith Foster course with some ... issues in regards to the setting.

It's got a Drag/Stock car track immediately to the South which provides a huge amount of noise pollution on any given weekend. 1 mile to the east sits a huge landfill, luckily the wind seldom blows that way but it's piled so high you can see the bulldozers and burning methane. Unfortunately it does blow from the west which means the rendering plant will come into play. Nothing like the smell of a rendering plant on a hot humid St. Louis summer day. On the SE corner of the property is a railroad track and a fairly large diversion canal that has some of the filthiest water you've ever seen. Top it off with the fact that the entire site probably is some sort of environmental hazard and you've got the makings of what I proudly call 'My Home Course'.

Buck

[Mike_Cirba]

I’ve got to toss LuLu CC into the mix…

A strip club just off the 3rd tee (I’ve been told   before the shutters were put up one could enjoy the entertainment and watch people tee off)

Steve,

I thought you guys did a "full restoration"??!?

You never told me about it either, or I would have fought for it to be included in your Master Plan!  

Kyle/Steve,

What the heck do you guys see in Commonwealth National?

I think it may be the best local example of really badly overdone 80s architecture with the boulder lined artificial ponds or wetlands on virtually every hole, fescue growing in the middle of what seems to be a strip mall of office buildings, and holes that are awkward, constricting, and frankly make no sense (driven as they were by the restrictions of all the best land going to the central office park, forcing the golf course to the soggy perimeters).  

It was a much better course as Hidden Springs by George Fazio prior to Arnie's "re-do", IMHO.  

[Kyle Harris]

Mike,

To be blatant, I don't see much in Commonwealth other than tees, greens and some stuff in between. That being said, it is pertinent to the lousy setting theme of this thread. I've played it once, and haven't really been disappointed in not making it back there.

However, it is a great club, with a great professional staff. And I can't be TOO critical of any course that gets 20-30 caddies out in a day. Ask any of them for some good Howard Eskin stories.... hehehehehe

BTW, Hidden Springs is a bit before my golf days.... pity too, I've heard good things.

[Mike_Cirba]

Kyle,

Agreed that Commonwealth is a lousy setting.

However, the theme of the thread is "Best course" in a crappy setting, and that's where it falls apart.  

If we were just going to name any private course in a crappy setting, I'd start with Glenmaura National near Scranton, built on the side of a strip-mined mountain at the bottom of a ski resort.  Hurdzan and Fry did some amazing engineering stuff there but the course still sucks.  

[Kyle Harris]

Touche on your "Best course" retort  

But again, Glenmaura National is a step in the right direction. Reclaiming mined land for golf would be a nice way to regenerate the economy up there...

My grandfather ran a strip mine in infamous Centralia, PA and I have dreams of building my golf course on his old mine...

Now there's a hazard... a mine fire.

[JESII]

Steve, Kyle and Mike,

Would LuLu move out of this category of bad views if the windows at the 19th Hole Lounge were opened? Just a thought.

[Steve Sayers]

Mike C:

I’ve been trying to get you back to LuLu for over a year now.  I’ll toss in a trip to the 19th Hole (off the 3rd tee) if that will help motivate you.

Wayne, you can come too!

JES II

No, it would solidify its place in the category!

The place is called the 19th Hole – we just refer to it as “the hole” -- a “gentleman’s club” it is not.

Rumor has it if you stand in place too long your feet stick to the floor!

[Bill Gayne]

Upper Montclair Country Club has a huge high rise apartment building that dwarfs the Clubhouse. It's a wonderful old course and club that is now in a very urban setting. When it was built in 1900 it was probably a rural outpost.

The golf scenes in The Sopranos were filmed on the course and the hi-rise in the back ground is what I'm talking about.

[Allan Long]

Fossil Trace-lousy views


Cary,

If this is the one in Golden, CO., I believe there is a lovely view of a correctional institution on many holes.