16th at Pebble

[Ted Kramer]

I played Pebble in '99.
I remember liking the 16th a lot.
The approach still really sticks out in my mind after these 5 or 6 years. I played to a back left pin and remember thinking that the green was very well done. I thought it fit well with the lay of the land and had some real character.
What do you guys think of of the 16th?

-Ted

[Lance Rieber]

 I really think this hole stands out to me as much as any hole . It requires a well thought out decision on the tee, leave a short iron off the downslope or try to leave it up on the top and hit from a level lie.  The barranca in front of the green makes the hole imo.  Green cants from right to left and a little draw to the back left pin takes the slope really well.  The place you can't miss is the right either off the tee or greenside.  I like this hole alot the only one better to me is the 4th.
Lance

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

It is one of my favorite holes no one talks about. I jusr love the drive and second shot and the green complex is tough and fun. I am sorrry the trees that frame the green are dying. I have started hitting 3 wood off the tee which takes a little away but adds some strategy to the hole.

[Andy Doyle]

I also thought this was a great hole that nobody talks about.

Need good decision-making off the tee - I think the orientation of the tee box, the sight of the green in the distance, and the opening between the center bunker and the tree on the right suckers you into playing too far to the right.



You have to place your tee shot well to set up the proper approach to the green:



The green complex is difficult.  I misjudged my approach and went over the green - there is a steep drop-off behind the green.  I thought this was a great view at the green looking through the trees back towards the seaside holes:



Andy

[A_Clay_Man]

It truely is amazing they haven't butchered this great hole by adding a bunker left, on the outside of the dogleg, yet.

The centerline nasties, that exist on this hole, are the crescendo of cross carries, which is Pebble Beach.

The bunker at the elbow of the leg, is one of the most severe,on the course, or anywhere. I'm assuming it's similar to some of those nasty ones at TOC, since if found, going for the green is usually ill-advised.

The green fronting bunker complex is a massive thing, serpentining to and fro.

The little hillock, just right of the green, likely had a much larger role in the playing of this hole, until the uber irrigation, standard maintenance mindset took over.

Andy, You are not alone in mis-judging the approach. Notoriously, the shot requires a little extra yardage,(into prevailing) to acheive the perfect distance, BUT, the downhill nature of one's lie, usually provides for it.

[Ted Kramer]

It truely is amazing they haven't butchered this great hole by adding a bunker left, on the outside of the dogleg, yet.

The centerline nasties, that exist on this hole, are the crescendo of cross carries, which is Pebble Beach.

The bunker at the elbow of the leg, is one of the most severe,on the course, or anywhere. I'm assuming it's similar to some of those nasty ones at TOC, since if found, going for the green is usually ill-advised.

The green fronting bunker complex is a massive thing, serpentining to and fro.

The little hillock, just right of the green, likely had a much larger role in the playing of this hole, until the uber irrigation, standard maintenance mindset took over.

Andy, You are not alone in mis-judging the approach. Notoriously, the shot requires a little extra yardage,(into prevailing) to acheive the perfect distance, BUT, the downhill nature of one's lie, usually provides for it.

I agree, a bunker left would be bad thing.
#16 is an excellent hole just the way it is.
I remember watching my approach feed towards the back left pin thinking "remember this, I don't know when you'll have a chance to come back".

-Ted

[Kyle Harris]

Another neat thing about this hole is that it is designed in such a way that no matter how long you hit the ball, it will play the same.

In that regard, I consider it up there with the 12th at Augusta and 10th at Riviera in architectural signifigance...

If the ball keeps getting longer, this hole will still be the same test long after the stretch of holes from 8-10 at Pebble become too easy.

[Ted Kramer]

The two "framing trees" affect the hacker
more than the scratch man.  (Was Fazio here?)
The shot is aerial, after all.

Are they necessary?  Desirable?

If you were to lose one, which, left? Right?

I'd remove the right one first, it visually clutters the hole.

p.s.  This is one of my favorite PBGL® holes.

I like the two framing trees and would chose to let them be. But if I had to chose, I'd lose the one on the right before the one on the left.

If I remember correctly, a drive not hit far enough left could be blocked by the tree on th right from a shot into a back right pin. The scratch man is probably much more likely to be firing at tucked pins than the hack is, so maybe the trees affect birdies as much as bogeys and doubles.

-Ted

[Andy Doyle]

redanman:

I like the trees.  They do provide a good framing element, encouraging play to the correct area in the fairway to give a more direct line into the green.  If you get greedier for distance off the tee, the downhill slope is more severe the closer you get, making the aerial shot more hazardous, more for the left than the right (at least from the perspective of a hacker  ).

Andy

[Dave_Miller]

I played Pebble in '99.
I remember liking the 16th a lot.
The approach still really sticks out in my mind after these 5 or 6 years. I played to a back left pin and remember thinking that the green was very well done. I thought it fit well with the lay of the land and had some real character.
What do you guys think of of the 16th?

-Ted

This is just a great golf holf.  Nothing more to say

Fairways and Greens
Dave

[Rob_Waldron]

I have always thought that #16 has been the most under rated hole on the course. Probably because there are no ocean views. The hole demands a well positioned tee shot, especially if the hole is tucked. The sloping green also demands a precise approach in order to have a birdie putt. Anything above the hole and you are lagging!  

[Brian Noser]

This is my favorite hole on the course. It may have somthing to do with the fact it was my only birdie when I played there when I was a young lad. What a fun hole.

[A_Clay_Man]

I'll be we see the long hitters doing it on Saturday and Sunday.

If the 'be" is suppose to be bet, I'll take it. Loser flies to others home state, for a round or two.

[paul cowley]

I love the hole for all the previously mentioned reasons and a few personal ones as well.....when I was a greenskeeper in the 70's, we hand raked bunkers and the fairway bunkers on 16 were my favorites to practice my zen and the art of bunker raking patterns in.....I would carefully rake out from the little islands in the stream, creating great patterns in the sand, and it would give me great pleasure to know that some golfer actually noticed these patterns during play!
  As head of special projects, I noticed that the oak grove left of greenside had become densely overgrown and I felt sure we were missing an ocean view and that air circulation might be improved if it was cleared, so I grabbed a new chicagoan and we spent two days with chainsaws and weed eaters and were real proud of the results until the chicagoan wound up in the hospital covered from head to toe [and internally] with poison oak....I didn't make it to the hospital but I do know what Western Poison Oak looks like to this day [didn't have it growing up east]....from the pictures it seems they are still keeping the growth down, so all the effort was not in vain.....just remembered the chicagoans name ,John Carlyle.... he was doing undercover work as a greenskeeper to write a story for Playboy....you anywheres out there John?
....Mr Biggers long gone .

[A_Clay_Man]

Wait a cotton pickin minute here, Did I see on the telecast, some nursemaid has replaced the furthest from the tee, real bunker, on the right?


I did I did. Worse yet, it's here on the thread.


This failed attempt to inspire fear, is but a shadow of it's former self. The lip use to be some 6-10 above the unfortunate golfers feet.

 What's with the wave action? Are we at SFGC?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

A much better hole for the mid distance hitters than the long hitters.
For me I have to weigh up the options of driver versus lay up because the over the bunker route is not feasible..however, there is a very fair an mount of room left of the traps to encourage the driver option.

I love the hole it is the perfect set up for what is to follow, great green which makes you think about where leave your approach, and that back left pin placement is just wonderful.

But as Shivas said for the long hitters..hell just boom it over the bunkers and flip on a sand wedge..more boring pro golf stuff...something has got to be done..but that has only encompassed about a hundred other threads...so I will leave it alone.

[THuckaby2]

Long hitters have been busting it over that bunker for several years now.  TGC showed highlights of Tiger's AT&T win where he came back and overtook Matt Gogel, and he did it then... huge drive down to about 75 yards from the middle.

In any case, I think shivas' point is a good one - to me it's a GOOD thing that this is even possible. In the old days, no one could do that, so for ALL golfers it was just a shot somewhere out to the left, with not much thought involved.  Now, this choice does exist... and it's not like ALL golfers bomb it down there - it's still a tough shot and you do bring a lot more risk into play - the safe play is still a 3wood or less hit out to the left.  

Thus increased distances have brought into play an option, where none existed before.

Of course this is exactly what shivas was trying to say, I'm just here to help.

TH

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Tom
I think you misunderstood my posting a little.
I did not mean it to sound as though I am one of those technology complainers..not at all.. I think as you do that having that option available makes it a better hole.

[THuckaby2]

Michael:

Reading comprehension is at times lost on me.  
Re-reading your post, I can see your point with crystal clarity.  So as for the 2nd part of my post above, I shall say:  never mind.  

But it is interesting (to me anyway) that bombing it was down there isn't a really new thing.  McCord goes bananas over Tiger's drive that year in question.  Then Tiger damn near holes the wedge, which would have made the all-time greatest back to back after he had holed out from 95 yards on 15....

TH

[A_Clay_Man]

Dave, Sorry, my local affiliate didnt air the telecast at the normal time. They aired it late night and I missed the shot you speak of.

I did however see his drive on Sunday, which was as far left as one could be. Perhaps pin placements dictated both drives, and Phil is just that frick'in good. Or, the Javier (heavy air) on Sunday dictated it. Or, he miss hit one or both of those drives. We will never know.

But I did interpret your original hypothesis as a little further right, than the left edge of the nursemaid they are calling that bunker, today.

Did anyone else notice the new bunkerwork around the entire course? I must say it smacks of an architectural blunder, indeed.

[Bruceski]

Isn't the right tree gone? I think it died.

[Andy Doyle]

These pictures were taken in April of 2004.

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