Any opinions on George Thomas' Ojai Valley?

[Adam_F_Collins]

Could 9 green and 10 tee get any further apart on the yellow routing?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Panhandle Bill,
The walk was indeed about 100 yards, maybe just short of that, to the 3rd tee. You can see the footpath from the green to that tee for #3 in the 1929 aerial. (that rhymes doesn't it? )

Anyway, I have never found anything saying the back was the front, that is until now, which I'm not even sure what is what! I actually do, but I didn't want to waste anymore time drawing lines and trying to make it all fit!

Adam,
You have to remember that Ojai was and always has been a resort, and a beautiful one. The hotel and spa is sort of centered and the golf course as you can tell is routed all around it. Its an pretty cool routing and the old 10th tee which has been now destroyed in this latest incarnation used to play on one side of the road, and you hit across it down to the fairway, hoping to cut as much of the dogleg off as possible. Walking between the old 9th green, thru the hotel and to the 10th tee was an enjoyable walk, and in the old days I would imagine a sort of glamorious one as quite a few Hollywood celebrities in the day would frequent there.

That has all been eliminated now with the expansion of the spa and the hotel.

[DMoriarty]

The old "lost" par 3 superimposed over the new . . . .
Old green = yellow;  New green + green


Essentially the new green is pushed back further into the narrow of the ridge.  There is now no room for a miss either left or right, with either miss resulting in an o.b. (right) or lost ball/hazard left.  The green is much smaller now.

Plus, Thomas describes the hole as a "semi-punchbowl" and you can see in the old photo that the fairway sloped down into the green, and that the bunkers were actually set well back of the green, allowing the option of just clearing the bunkers and bouncing it in.   This of course is no longer an option and the green doesnt resemble a punchbowl at all.  

If one looks at the photo in the initial post on this thread one can see a hollowed out area short of the new bunkers.   While this isnt quite in the same location of the old green, it may reflect where they where the got the dirt to fill in the bowl and build up the existing green location.  By shrinking the green and filling in the punchbowl they have effectively eliminated any option viable option other than a perfect shot.  

Is this a renovation?   Well they made a par 3 in the same location old hole.  Also, it still plays downhill.  But there is nothing similar about the character of the hole or the options presented.   Too bad, since according to Ben Crenshaw the hole was still there intact.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy Naccarato,

Do you feel that the creators of Spanish Bay saw Ojai and adopted the Ojai configuration of setting the hotel in the middle of the golf course ?

Or, do you think they missed a great opportunity to build a stunning golf course because they didn't know any better ?

[Craig Disher]

Tommy,
Thanks for the history; the 1953 aerial now makes sense. The full 18 that Bell & Son designed is there but the absence of bunkers on the back 9 suggests that it was still a work in progress with greens and tees completed. The bunkering looks pedestrian compared to the original Thomas design.

Nothing remains of Thomas' 3rd or 4th.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tommy Naccarato,

Do you feel that the creators of Spanish Bay saw Ojai and adopted the Ojai configuration of setting the hotel in the middle of the golf course ?

Or, do you think they missed a great opportunity to build a stunning golf course because they didn't know any better ?

Pat, No, I don't think that is the case at all. At least I don't even see anything close to the same feeling there, and in truth, I would rate the atmosphere at Ojai exceptional compared to the gimmicks of a bagpiper playing at Spanish Bay. We both know how much better that golf course could have been there, Maybe even had it where the 18th finished in an area more closely overlooked by the hotel, up near the woods. To me that would have been something to write home about.

I would think if you were staying at Ojai, nothing would be better then sitting out there on that grand patio at dusk, talking about Golf and Clark Gable (Who used to visit there) with a margarita in hand.  Bill Vostinak, Mike Golden, Scott Arnold and I did that one year, only we were in the inside bar right off the first tee, and it was quite a place.

(There is also a really good EYETALIAN restaurant on the way back out of town where we ate at, that I would highly recommend to anyone. In fact, I have eaten there with Lynn & Jim Wagner too.) (how did this get on to food?)

Well anyway!  The Inn at Ojai is a cool place, or at least used to be. That may have all changed with the recent expansion and knowing the owners taste, they probably went from old Spanish-influenced, Chumash architecture to Grecco-Roman for the new buildings.

The Inn and the Golf Course itself were simpatico--they worked.  Unfortunately, they no longer do that. Both have given way to an owner that might as well be putting in a Denny's there as four-star dining experience to go with the rest of the place!