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John_Conley

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Best course in Florida on its way??
« on: January 05, 2005, 01:43:51 PM »
Check out the last course.  From today's Orlando Sentinel.
--
By Steve Elling | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted January 5, 2005


If there's anything that lights a bona fide bonfire under a hardcore golfer, it's the notion of unbridled possibility with respect to playing a new golf course.

Everything is fresh, right down to the carts and pencil points. There is no scar tissue from past playing experiences at a new track, no bad memories from triple bogeys, no recollection of getting knocked horizontal by a lateral hazard.

It's always fun to be the first guy on the block to play a new course, especially when they are designed by the likes of Jack Nicklaus, Rees Jones, Nick Faldo, Ben Crenshaw or longtime area architects Mike Dasher, the busy Clifton, Ezell & Clifton firm and the late David Harman.

With that in mind, here's Golf Confidential's annual look ahead at what's in the Orlando-area production pipeline for 2005 and beyond. After a lull in 2001-02, course building has picked up appreciably, especially in the real-estate development sector, where low interest rates are fueling record home sales.

RedTail Golf Club

Technically the course, located in Sorrento near the increasingly golf-rich Heathrow area, opened for limited play in November.

RedTail, a development course at a very upscale community called Heathrow Country Estates, is unique in several respects.

First, the rolling terrain offers some rare elevation changes. Second, the Harman design stands as the first private course to be built in greater Orlando since the financially checkered Alaqua Country Club opened in 1988. (Web site: hcefl.com)

The affable Harman, who died last month at age 51, also designed Orange County National, site of the 2005 PGA Tour Qualifying School finals, Shingle Creek and the now-defunct Magnolia Plantation course.

Reunion Resort

With top-shelf courses by Arnold Palmer and Tom Watson already open for play at the massive realty and time-share development, the Nicklaus course is slated to be completed in late 2005. If it's anything like its two predecessors, it should rank among the best and most memorable daily-fee offerings in the area.

The resort commands a steep price to play the courses, but in terms of amenities and design, every detail has been considered. Some of the cart paths on the eye-catching Watson course are made of brick, for gosh sakes. The courses are located off exit 58 on Interstate 4. (See reunionresort.com).

Bella Collina:
Faldo's first course in Florida will be an ultra high-end affair, built by the same developer as the Reunion Resort. Home sites already are selling for hundreds of thousands at the development, which is situated on a hill overlooking Lake Siena and Lake Apopka, a few miles west of Orlando.

The course, which should be completed in late 2005 or early 2006, will be a private club catering to a decidedly high-end clientele. Say this for Faldo, who has a home at Lake Nona and is a six-time major winner; he likes geographic diversity. He also is building courses on an Irish island and in suburban Moscow. (See bellacollina.com). John's input - I think this is actually designed by Steve Smyers.

Providence Golf & Country Club

Located in the Davenport-Loughman area of Polk County along U.S. 17-92, the development is expected to include 4,000 homes by the time the final build-out is complete.

The course will be designed by the underrated Dasher, who built the well-received North Shore and Highlands Reserve courses in the Orlando area. Providence, which will be open to the public, marks the first golf-course project by the Orlando-based ABD Development. The company has built homes in several area communities with existing courses, but never started a golf community from scratch. The course should open in late 2005 or early 2006. (See abddevelopment.com)

Bonnett Creek

The actual name of the Jones course isn't set in stone, and neither is the completion date. Situated near the Pop Century hotel on the Disney World grounds, the roughed-out course routing has been completed for weeks. Water hazards are already in place.

Jones' firm is awaiting the phone call to finish the project, which is tied into adjacent hotel and time-share developments. In theory, it could open in late 2005 if work progresses in the spring, a Jones representative said. Jones, architect of the ever-popular Falcon's Fire course in Kissimmee, has redesigned several U.S. Open tracks.

The Villages

If the massive Lake County retirement development isn't already the largest golf community on the globe, it must be getting close by now. Already, 279 holes are open, and another 81 are in the works.

Handling the brunt of the development's course-building chores since 1989, the busy DeLand-based design firm of Clifton, Ezell & Clifton is seemingly almost always plotting something new. In this case, Cane Garden Country Club will open Monday, and the Mallory Hill course is scheduled to open March 10. Both courses will eventually include 27 holes and will be open to the public. (See thevillages.com)

Farther afield, the firm is finalizing the plans and permitting to build Plantation Oaks in Ormond Beach and Venetian Bay in New Smyrna Beach, which both are expected to break ground in early 2005.

Solivita Cypress

Clifton, Ezell & Clifton has gutted and completely rebuilt an existing course located adjacent to the growing Solivita community in Poinciana. Several holes were rerouted, and the entire course has undergone a thorough redesign. Rechristened as the Solivita Cypress Course, it's expected to reopen in the summer of 2005.

Sugarloaf

The newest area project on the drawing board features a design by Crenshaw, who has garnered extremely positive early reviews for his new course at the renowned Bandon Dunes resort on the Oregon coast.

A development course located in the rolling hills near Clermont, Crenshaw said the property features 40-foot elevation changes. One of the principle developers is former PGA of America president M.G. Orender, who is based in Jacksonville and projects a completion date of mid-2006. The high-end realty development will eventually include 2,000 luxury homes, perched on a ridge overlooking Lake Apopka.

"This property is pretty spectacular," Orender said. "Lake Apopka looks like the Irish Sea."

rgkeller

Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2005, 04:35:40 PM »
"This property is pretty spectacular," Orender said. "Lake Apopka looks like the Irish Sea."

An early contender for most ridiculous line hyping a new course in 2005.

John_Cullum

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2005, 05:15:06 PM »
I expect Orender is the first to have said that. And likely the last.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Derek_Duncan

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2005, 05:36:28 PM »
My first reaction is, my God, how can Central Florida support all of this?

My second reaction is, I wish the writer would have given appropriate design credit up front to Smyers and Coore, as well as whoever is doing the work for Watson (just because I'd personally like to know. Anyone?). At least he didn't say Orange County National was an Aoki design.

My third reaction is, Lake Apopka looks nothing like the Irish Sea, unless you've had your head buried in thirteen drams of Redbreast and it's raining. And you've never seen the Irish Sea. But I am glad to see more golf being developed around the Clermont area---it's elevation changes, deep sandy soils, and broad rural vistas might even get Mark Ward to place an asterisk next to his generalized Florida criticisms.

I also wasn't aware that Magnolia Plantation closed.
www.feedtheball.com -- a podcast about golf architecture and design
@feedtheball

Andy Doyle

Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2005, 06:08:13 PM »
I grew up in the Orlando area and I've been to Ireland, so I feel somewhat qualified to confirm the absurdity of that comment.  About the only thing Lake Apopka has in common with the Irish Sea is that they are both wet.

Does anyone know exactly where this development is?  I'm going to be in Clermont this weekend on business & wouldn't mind checking it out.  I'll agree with the comment by Derek that this area has (by far) the most interesting topography in Central Florida (meaning that it actually has topography).

Andy

Daryn_Soldan

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2005, 08:42:48 PM »
Derek-

I believe the architect working with Watson is Bob Gibbons.

-Daryn

Joe Hancock

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2005, 08:46:27 PM »
Daryn

Did Bob Gibbons graduate from Purdue, and did he work at Landfall Club in Wilmington/ Wrightsville Beach? I was the irrigation tech there while the Dye course was built, and I think it was Bob who was a project manager....same guy, do you know?

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Daryn_Soldan

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2005, 09:10:50 PM »
Joe-

Not sure about his history.  I am familiar with his work at The National in Kansas City and remember seeing his name associated with other Tom Watson Design projects but that is about it.  Just took a look and he is quoted in the promotional material on the Reunion Resort website.  He is also refered to as, "a golf course architect with Watson Design who worked closely on the Independence Course (Reunion Resort) project.

-Daryn

Joe Hancock

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2005, 09:15:14 PM »
Thanks, Daryn,

This was way back in the mid 80's, when Bobby Weed was the on site construction guy for Dye...and Tom Doak showed up at the end of construction with his camera for two days of picture taking.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John_Conley

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2005, 11:35:17 AM »
You can laugh all you want at the Irish Sea comment, but C&C's body of work on decent sites is pretty impressive.  That part of Orlando, just a bit W and N is nice.  Don't be surprised if the course is very good like Cuscowilla.

Derek:

Virtually all of the golf still being developed is at the centerpiece of some real estate project.  Bella Colina is close to that proposed Crenshaw site.  As far as design credits... the audience for the paper wouldn't know those people but can recognize Faldo and Crenshaw.  Steve Elling told me some of it was in the story but edited out for space.

Keith Williams

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2005, 12:02:01 PM »
Joe,

Yes, Bob Gibbons was the project manager at Landfall and he still lives in Wilmington, NC.

Keith.

RJ_Daley

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2005, 03:27:11 PM »
A question for you fellows who know Florida golf:  As mentioned above, there are big real estate projects still underway (one mentioned 4000 associated homes!).  Yet, another mentioned distressed projects like Alaqua, and others.  The Villages seems to have taken on a world onto itself.  Is there an underlying driving force to keep stimulating this golf/homesite project development beyond sunshine?  Perhaps I'll start a new thread on my suspicions...  But, I'd like to hear any comments or theory's.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Andy Hughes

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2005, 03:33:50 PM »
RJ
I can also add that Sarasota currently has several high-end courses/developments being built right now.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Rick Shefchik

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2005, 04:22:34 PM »
Lake Apopka:


Irish Sea:


Maybe on a windy, overcast day in Orlando...
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

George Pazin

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Re:Best course in Florida on its way??
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2005, 04:41:22 PM »
I don't know what the fuss is about, if you squint down, they look pretty similar:





 :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John_Conley

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For Mr. Daley
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2005, 05:05:39 PM »
Pazin, that is AWESOME!

Daley:  Golf in our area is like the hotel world.  A place can be full up with hotels and a new one can be added.  This is at the expense of the weak hotel... not the new one.

Alaqua is and has always been a disaster.  Nothing will break that.  But a place like Bella Colina or the proposed Crenshaw deal could make a go of it.  Virtually all the golf we see developed is in conjunction with a real estate project.

Florida is still a "net inflow" state.  A new course is about to open near Viera (Melbourne/Rockledge).  Do we "need" another new course?  No.  But having one will make some people take a look at the place and help them sell lots to build homes.  So in that case we do "need" it.  Housing will remain strong in Central Florida.

John_Conley

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Where is the crap on the thread
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2005, 10:19:26 AM »
Redanman:

No doubt that there are other competent architects.  All of those that have worked in my area have let the developer set the tone.  So we have some of the worst of Rees Jones, some not very good stuff by Nicklaus, average Palmer work, fluff Fazio pieces, and boiler-play Arthur Hills stuff.

What I like about the C&C business philosophy is that they aren't trying to design more courses, they're just trying to design more great ones.

Decent land can be found where they are talking about locating a C&C course.  I'm sure someone like Jim Engh, Mike Devries, Mike Strantz, or Tom Doak can also do a good job, but last time I checked none of them were working in Central Florida.

Crenshaw/Coore do not have a track record of compromising their principles.  This is why I told the Sentinel writer who penned the story that there is a good chance of the C&C involvement not coming to pass.  I'm guessing they'd walk if the developer starts by saving the land for lots.