[TEPaul]

Pat:

Consider it bifurcated! It would help if you could teach us all how to post in blue and red print though. Taking on topography in  a playbility sense could be in blue print and long walks from green to next tee could be in red print! How's that for bifurcation?

[paul cowley]

Tom....as i have no knowledge of the course in point ,and if you have a blank topo of the site ,and could send it down....it would be fun for me to do a blind routing to contrast with the other two and make comparisons.

and yes , your flask works indoors as well  

[TEPaul]

Paul:

Which course do you mean?

[Mike_Sweeney]

What are some of the enduringly respected courses out there that are tough walks and was there a better way to minimize that or are those tough uphill holes worth it?

Yale & Sand Hills are tougher walks for a second 18 holes in the heat of the summer. Yale for the uphill holes on the back and Sand Hills for the tee to fairway walks through the deep sand in spots. Fortunately, there are caddies at Sand Hills but I don't think I have ever seen a pull cart there. Yes, I have taken a cart at Sand Hills, but it was more for a final 9 holes at "Church" or to catch a full 18 in on the morning of the flight out.

[wsmorrison]

Tom,

CC York.  If Paul thinks you know how to attach files in an email, he must think your computer skills match your typing skills  

[Ted Kramer]

Getting back more on topic, one of the toughest walks that is always worth it is Bethpage Black.  

I'm not sure what makes it so brutal because there are no hills I'd call severe, most green to tee walks are not daunting, but I think it just comes off as relentless from a walkability standpoint.  

I wouldn't call it a course where you can't wait to go from the 18th green to the 1st tee, however.

Excellent example.

-Ted

[paul cowley]

yes Wayne ....and if you felt it was worth the effort and could helpTom email , i could then find someone to help me open the file  .

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Getting back more on topic, one of the toughest walks that is always worth it is Bethpage Black.  

I'm not sure what makes it so brutal because there are no hills I'd call severe, most green to tee walks are not daunting, but I think it just comes off as relentless from a walkability standpoint.  

I wouldn't call it a course where you can't wait to go from the 18th green to the 1st tee, however.

Excellent example.

-Ted

Ted-
I never had a problem with BB unless I was smoking a lot that day--and I'm being serious--but I understand what you mean--it's a series of long, relentless hills to climb all day, so it's a constant pounding on your body.  Then, at the end of the day, there's a lot of 'up-and-down' hills, on the final four holes.  

[BCrosby]

Pat asks - Would you bifurcate your thread ?

1 golf courses with terrain that makes for a difficult walk
2 routing that makes for a difficult walk.
_____________

Great question. The Flynn v. Ross routings for York are a good case study. Flynn's routing would have been a more difficult walk than Ross's. He did not cut the walker much slack. My guess is that such concerns carried little weight with Flynn.

Whether or not it was one of his conscious objectives, Ross's routing clearly maximized the "walkability" of the site.
______________

ANGC is the only course I can think of that is both a 10 on the Doak scale and a 10 on the walking difficulty scale. Even the "flat" holes have enough contour to make you feel the walk. Not that you mind.

Bob

[BCrosby]

To what extent is the "walkability" of a routing another way of talking about the expense of constructing the course?

Aren't highly walkable routings usually less expensive to build that those more diffiult to walk? Aren't drainage, grow-in, and green and tee construction usually easier to manage on a walkable routing? (My question assumes that you don't need to move a lot of dirt to make the site walkable in the first place.)  

Bob

[THuckaby2]

This is simple, and Pat Mucci got it right even without bifurcating the question:  if the golf holes are good enough, they can overcome the negatives of a difficult walk.  Case in point re difficult routing:  Pacific Dunes. Case in point re difficult terrain:  Pasatiempo.

TH

[Craig Disher]

TEP,
Would Max Behr ever have asked this question?

[George Pazin]

Terrain-wise, most courses in western PA are "tough walks" to many. I find them invigorating!

How about Oakmont? Oakmont East, its ultra quirky public neighbor, is definitely a tough walk.

Paa Ko Ridge was a tough but enjoyable walk.

Is Pac Dunes a tough walk? Didn't Rich G & Darren K walk it 2 or 3 times in one day? How tough a walk could it be? I wouldn't want to walk Paa Ko twice in one day.

[THuckaby2]

GP:

I tend to find tough walks to be a pain in the ass that delay me from hitting golf shots.  So do understand the bias.

But that being said, Pacific Dunes would not be a tough walk at all for one who finds Paa-Ko Ridge tough but enjoyable.  It's a piece of cake compared to that. And hell, even lazy ass me did PD and BD in the same day with nary a complaint.  

What PD does have is quite a few long green to tee treks, necessitated by finding the best golf holes.  Much of the time it's also over sand or sandy soil or railroad ties or the like, also necessitated by the incredible site.  So it is a tough walk, but absolutely worth it.

I find hitting good golf shots to be invigorating, btw.  If I want to be invigorated by a walk, I go hiking.  
 

[A_Clay_Man]

An i.e. like Pinon Hills might apply for being worth it?
Since more than one designer said it couldn't be done, Ken Dye utilized the natural arroyo on the signature par 3 to create another unique golf hole, and one that is clearly the anchor hole for the course. It is the climb down into and out of this canyon that makes the lungs and heart pump. When this hole was the fourth to last hole, endurance was needed. Now as the 6th, it makes for a tough opening side walk but not so impossible that a group of in-shape octegenarians (or close to it) walk it daily.

[George Pazin]

Lehigh compares favorably in terms of walking difficulty to many western PA courses, but, having said that, it is a great walk, one of the most enjoyable I've ever had.

[frank_D]

... is the quality of those holes worth the uphill walk? .....
....The uphill slog to some of Ross's final holes can be pretty tough.....
..."you know this site can potentially  be one helluva tough walk for your membership.".....
..... are those tough uphill holes worth it?

brother TEPaul

when did walking become a negative factor ?

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