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ian

Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« on: October 03, 2004, 03:28:08 PM »
I think this one is easier than many in the past.

Some very easy ones and a couple of more obscure.
Good luck, I expect to post the answers fairly quickly , you are a hard group to fool without getting stupid about it, unless I have done better than I think.

Name the architect, the correct course will be a bonus

Architect #1


Architect #2


Architect #3


Architect #4


Architect #5


Architect #6


Architect #7


Architect #8


« Last Edit: October 03, 2004, 04:08:07 PM by Ian Andrew »

Joe Hancock

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2004, 03:30:41 PM »
Ian,

I'm not as smart as most, but I do know #2 is DeVries. I'd guess #3 to be Pete Dye?

Joe

EDIT: Extra credit? #2 is #2 @ Kingsley!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2004, 03:31:28 PM by Joe Hancock »
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

SPDB

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2004, 04:27:43 PM »
I love these.

1. Kidd, Bandon
2. DeVries
3. Silva, Black Creek
4. C&C, I think.
5. C&C, Chechessee
6. Fazio, Forest Creek
7. Doak, Riverfront
8. Hanse, Inniscrone?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2004, 04:28:27 PM by SPDB »

ian

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2004, 04:41:17 PM »
Sean,

Busted! As much as I tried to play with the images, I wondered if someone would pick up the modern slant right away. I took the chance. In hindsight I would have mixed old and new together to hide that fact. I think a couple gave the whole group away.

Oh yeah, 6 of 8, two are not correct. It shouldn't take too long.

Matt Kardash

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2004, 04:51:41 PM »
1. kidd
2. devries
3. looks like raynor, but i'm guessing it's not
4. strantz
5. coore and crenshaw
6. no clue really
7. doak
8. hanse
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

ian

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2004, 06:29:47 PM »
They are all there.

Kidd
DeVries
Silva
Stranz
Coore
Fazio
Doak
Hanse - French Creek

I did not even try use Rees, Nicklaus and a few others because I just could not hide their architectural work with black and white or by "fuzzing" the image.

I was curious to know if I could hide the work of these architects with some trickery. Now I'm curious if you recognized the architects work from visuals or was this strictly through the profiles (I lacked my own photos).

Tom MacWood's post on Ross facinated me, I have never felt I had a handle on Ross even through all the reading. I've seen too many different things in different photos and articles. Even with Travis, I still somewhat unsure whether you could describe "a" style. I've come accross my third completely different look for a Travis course (he only did 40 courses, and I've only seen half).

Do these newer architects have consistant styles or techniques that you and future renovators recognize. Is there a pattern in their strategies or routings? Is one of their strengths their versatility?


gholland

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2004, 07:43:04 PM »
#6
Fazio #3 hole at Forest Creek

TEPaul

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2004, 08:20:29 PM »
Ian:

I'm no good at actually identifying the courses or arcthitects but #4 is one of the most natural and beautiful looking greens and surrounds I've ever seen!

JNC Lyon

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2004, 09:31:17 PM »
TEPaul:

In case you did not know, #4 is the tenth at Tobacco Road, right out of the course profile on this site.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Scott_Burroughs

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2004, 11:26:13 PM »
 >:(  Didn't see this until just now.  Knew most of them, for
once, I guess having played 5 of them helped.

Tom Paul,

That #4 pic is not even the green and surrounds, that's just
the landing zone for #10 at Tobacco Road.  The green is over
the end of the bunker to the right and falls away from the
player at the front.

TEPaul

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2004, 12:07:11 AM »
ScottB:

Well then, no wonder I'm no good at all at identifying courses and the architects who built them---apparently I can't even tell the difference between a green and its surrounds and a fairway surrounded by its rough!

Scott_Burroughs

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2004, 01:32:02 PM »
Tom,

Here's the entire pic in color (green is back by far right bunker):



and from behind the green (as it falls away):


Brian_Gracely

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2004, 01:59:23 PM »
A little while back, Tom Paul asked what is was that made some of these modern guys (Doak, C&C, Hanse, Strantz, etc.) interesting and were they at a stage to be considered with the previous generation.  

This past week I had the chance to play an excellent Ross course that still had almost all the original bunkers & routing (Holston Hills).  I also had the chance to play my first Doak course (Lost Dunes) and walk my first C&C course (Warren Course @ ND).  A few weeks back I had the pleasure of playing Strantz's new course at MPCC.  

Granted I've only been around these courses once, so I'm not making comparisons and I probably missed more that I saw, but the one thing that jumped out at my about the new courses was the use of visual disception or visual intimidation vs. traditional strategic elements seen in the past (ie. bunker placement).  

For example, at HH, everything is right in front of you, so the challenge is determining the best line or type of shot.  But somehow Ross also figured out where people would often miss (short-right, etc.) and then things like bunkers or slope came back into play again.

At Lost Dunes, Warren or MPCC, you visually see alot less of where you need to go, and alot more of things that can be visual intimidation (ie. long grasses, bunkers that are farther than they appear, angled tee-shots where the tops of bunkers obscure the landing area, etc.). But once you mentally overcome these challenges, the playing areas are often very wide and accepting.  

Couple of examples:
Lost Dunes: Tee-Shots on #3, 5, 6, 18
Warren: Tee-Shot on #16; Bunkers on #11, 13
MPCC: Mound/bunkers in front of #5

Does this make the newer courses any less challenging?  No, not at all.  Are they less strategic?  Well, I guess that would depending on your definition of strategy.  If strategy is just shot-making (line, direction, height), then maybe you'd say "less strategic".  But if strategy takes into consideration that your eyes help guide you around the course, and that the mind & confidence might wander throughout a 4hr round, and challenging the visual can be another form of strategy, then they are absolutely strategic.  

So there some new things happening with the newer architects that is very interesting.  Unfortunately for our gotta-have-it-now society, some people might miss the variety these new guys bring because it probably takes 10-20 rounds to figure out a place like Lost Dunes (ok, 100 rounds to figure out the greens), but the way they challenge both the mind and the shots is something to celebrate.  

[NOTE:  I did Lost Dunes absolutely no justice with those limited examples, but they immediately came to mind.  I could probably talk all day about the interesting aspects I saw on various holes)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2004, 02:08:08 PM by Brian_Gracely »

TEPaul

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2004, 07:12:18 PM »
Brian:

In my opinion, some of the best architecture ever done may have been done fairly recently. A lot of this new stuff is not just interesting to look at and seemingly natural too but it can be a ball to play, strategically and otherwise.

But not always with some of these guys we seem to admire or at least not all of it always. Just look at that hole you produced the photo of that I thought was a green but it's the fairway of Strantz's #10 Tabacco Rd. In my opinion, the near side of that hole is really beautiful---the shape of that fairway, the lines of the bunkering, the angle of the hole etc. But look at the left side of that hole. Look at that manufactured mounding all the way along the left side---look at how it cuts off the base of all those trees in the background!

Now just imagine how beautiful and natural that entire hole would be if only that entire left side sloped gradually up to the base of those trees in the background (so you could see the base of those trees) the way it probably once was before the bull-dozer got there.

That hole is beautiful looking to me except everything that was manufactured along the left of the hole. Why do they have to do that? It would be so much more soothing and beautiful and natural looking if they just hadn't done all that unnecessary earthwork on the left of that hole!

Doug_Feeney

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2004, 09:42:05 PM »
TEPaul,

I guess the response to why Strantz would raise those mounds so high would depend on what is on the other side.  I've never been to TR so I don't know the answer.

If there is nothing between the mounds and the tree line, then I agree with you that it takes away from the natural beauty of the surroundings.  However, if the mounding is used to obscure another part of the course that raises another question.  Would it be better to lower the mounds so they blend into the bases of the trees even if it gave a view of an adjacent hole?

How about an entry road or maintenance building?  Just curious regarding your thoughts on such a question.

Brian_Gracely

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2004, 09:49:33 PM »
Tom,

That mounding to the left actually is part of a much larger land-form that was created to form several dunes-like formations that come into play on several holes.  Here's some examples:

#1 at Tobacco Road.  This hole runs parallel to #10.


#9 at Tobacco Road.  The green sits on the top of the ridge created by the dune to the left of #1 fairway.



The course is built on the site of an old sand/gravel quarry, but all of the dunes have been created throughout the course.  But the way they tie together from hole to hole make you forget what is natural and what is manmade.  Lots of good pictures on their website, http://tobaccoroadgolf.com/hole1.html

TEPaul

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2004, 04:44:04 AM »
Doug and Brian:

I've never been to Tobacco Road either so it's hard to say about those left mounds in that photo and whether the hole or course is better or looks better for them. I'm just trying to visualize if a hole like that would look (and play better) without them. If there's nothing on the other side up to those trees I'd prefer they not be there and look like that. Even if there's another hole between those mounds and the trees, so what? If there's space for another hole up there I sure wouldn't mind seeing it although I certainly do recognize lots of golfers would rather not.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2004, 04:53:28 AM by TEPaul »

Brian_Gracely

Re:Visual Architecture Quiz...number 4
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2004, 07:55:59 AM »
Tom,

Behind that dune is the 11th hole and the 2nd hole (they run partially parallel to each other), so there is probably 500yds between those dunes and the trees.  The angle of the pictures of #10 aren't actually from the tee-box, but to the right and below the tee-box.  From the slightly elevated tee, the player can tell that the trees are nowhere in play.

The one thing that is very difficult to describe about Tobacco Road is the sense of "awe" that you have when you drive in.  Coming up US1, which is essentially flat/slightly-rolling land lined with pine-trees, you turn into the club and you're immediately presented with the dunes around the 13th green and then you see the dunes for 1, 9, 10 when you approach the clubhouse.  It gives you this strange sens that you're no longer in the Sand Hills of North Carolina, but you're not exactly sure where you are.

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