minimalist greats ! raynor et al...

[paul cowley]

...i've never been comfortable with the general description of minimalism in golf....i.e how little dirt can one move to create a [ you pick it ] good , bad ,  or great golf course ?

minimalism in the fine arts has little to do with size....its almost the opposite [as in 'less' is more impressive if its bigger].

   i think minimalism in golf is really about creating the most challenging and un-adorned strategies , with the least effort required to do so  , on any given site...........hence my choice of CB raynor and friends.

[paul cowley]

Paul , are you suggesting that the most accomplished minimalists are not nessesarily those that move the the least amount of dirt to convey the best golfing strategies?

[paul cowley]

....could you rephrase that ?

[paul cowley]

paul....what is it that you are not getting   ... i'd like to try to help  ....

[Tommy_Naccarato]

To Paul(s)

Sorry, I can't answer now, I could have sworn I was just seeing quadruple..........It must have been that last cocktail I shouldn't have had. You either!

[TEPaul]

PaulC:

I think your initial post is tres interesting and most provocative. But as you can see from the first three or so respondents this site really does have a pretty good number of numb-sculls! You can't really expect too many on here to just pick up on a few interesting statements like you made in your initial post and run with them and have an intelligent discussion. No, you have to couch things on here in very simple little baby questions or they get confused, as you can see. And even with very simple baby questions you then have to suffer through the inevitable roll of posts from the respondents that they've been misquoted, misrepresented and misunderstood!

Paul, you kill me, you really do!

However, I have this gut feeling the initial post is most interesting but could you first put some of it into a real simple question so I can figure out what to think---and then if I get lucky what to say?

[paul cowley]

....my friends ,

  this thread , [quite serious , we can assure you ] , also serves as an example that not all the damage caused by Frances can be measured in dollars.............................p ;)ul

[paul cowley]

no takers ?.....well, let me expand with a question [listen up !]

which course represents a greater minimalist EFFORT , the old course or yeamans hall ?

......i will check in later , i need to go back to dulling my chainsaw between the downpours.

[TEPaul]

"which course represents a greater minimalist EFFORT , the old course or yeamans hall?"

Me first, me first!! OK, so it's my turn, right? Let me see, that's a tough one.......eeny meemy miiiny......OK, I've got it----it's the old course!!

Wait a minute---are you talking earth moving or strategically? I thought you were gonna ask us simple questions. This one's a trick question if I ever saw one.

[paul cowley]

.....its sure lonely here ...is anybody out there ?....is that you paul ?.........

[paul cowley]

tompaul, thank god thats you !

   the old course , while definately a primative effort in a naturalist mode and delightfully un-adorned....but a minimalist DESIGN , hardly ......wrong answer ,try again .....lets see if you can get it right this time !

[A_Clay_Man]

Hey, can I get in on screwing up this thread?

Minimalist has come to mean anything that isn't non-minimalist.

The perfectly smooth lines of greenside ponds, in the desert, is my best example of Non-minimal.

But seriously, is there a better way to aerate water, than a waterfall?

[TEPaul]

Paul:

OK, so you're talking strategically then. Now that's a real tough one even with that virtual hint you just gave me. Let's see....eeny, meeny. miiny....OK, I think I got it....Yeamans Hall, right?

Yehhhhh, man am I smart at this stuff!

Ask me another, come on ask me another!

[RJ_Daley]

Paul, is it true what they say goes on at those "hurricane parties", like lots of drinking, sex, and drugs, takes place while the wind blows?  And, you live in Florida, right?  If the first several guys that posted on this thread begin an argument with you, slowly back away and buy the man a drink.

The fellow that can define minimalist best is the fellow that pays the freight for the construction of a golf course.  The ratio of how little he paid for how much he got in terms of strategy and excellent golf design ideas, including efficiency to maintain it, would be the best measure of minimalism.

I think CB, Raynor and Banks were sometime minimalist when they could find property that had some nice contour and they could figure out drainage patterns to fit in with their boilerplate design strategic ideas.  Yet, when they had to manufacture everything with no help from natural terrain characteristics, but they wanted to have all the best golf strategies they were famous for, they were anything but "minimalists".   Check the construction budgets...

PS: TOC, are you really in doubt of that?

[bbarkley]

Minimalist...what about eddie hackett from ireland...could we call him one.  was he not designing courses for just 200 quid?? for the connemara design, he told the priest of the village "if you are keen on golf, i'll put a stone in for a tee and a pin for a green, and you can pay me when you can."  i have never been there, so i cannot defend the strategy of the hole, but that sounds pretty minimalist to me.  if feel taking what the good lord has created and producing a great golf course with out moving a "substantial" amount of dirt, is minimalist design.