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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Dirt time needed
« on: August 30, 2004, 10:03:37 PM »
Several threads indicate that some therapy is in order for a few keyed up individuals. I have a suggestion for those that feel an urge to have a hissy about someone else: Before you hit the post key, find a golf course under construction and go on site for a visit. If you hint around, you might be able to operate some heavy equipment and move some dirt. It's very therapuetic. Ask Gary Nelson, he left us a changed man last Friday!

Regards and relax,

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dirt time needed
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2004, 10:37:43 PM »
Joe,

I don't know what the inspiration for this post is, or what exactly Gary Nelson was involved with, but I can say, the views of those people who are quick to criticize but have never been involved with a golf course development would benefit from any involvement in the process.

Having an opportunity to shape some features?! Even better!

To say: "I would have done this or that instead", off the cuff, is dangerous. [I've done it myself in the past, and have learned from those experiences.]

Get on a bulldozer and try to translate your "design ideas" onto the ground for the first time, and you'll develop a great apprecation for the engineering skills of golf course designers and the abilities of good equipment operators, really, really quick. Trust me... from experience.  
« Last Edit: August 30, 2004, 10:39:38 PM by Jeff_Mingay »
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jeffmingay.com

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dirt time needed
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2004, 11:25:20 PM »
Jeff,

Inspiration for this post came from reading other threads, including quite a bit of personal attacks. I'm just suggesting that folks need to relax and refocus on the topic at hand.

Gary Nelson was heading for northern Michigan last Friday. He decided to stop in at The Mines, in Grand Rapids. He left after his tour, lunch and his time behind the wheel of a scraper....one of those dual engine, articulated joint, bottom loading dirt moving behemoths. (Insert Tim Taylor grunting noise here)

I know everyone can't run right out and find a golf course under construction...but if you can, it sure helps refocus, and perhaps change some of the "I'm always right, you're wrong" attitudes.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Gary_Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dirt time needed
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2004, 10:30:41 AM »
As Joe said, I got to drive one of those whompin' big dirt scrapers.  A childhood sandbox dream come true!  I had 30 or so acres of wide open space with only a solitary tree in the middle.  I did OK seeing as I didn't hit the tree and wreck the scraper.

Seeing the course in a semi-finished state surely changed my mind about what goes into course design.  These guys whacked down a forest of trees, excavated 150k cubic yards of sand, and fashioned a really cool looking routing.  I'm planning on teeing it up on July 5, 2005 when it opens (per the sign out front).

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Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dirt time needed
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2004, 10:49:12 AM »
Jeff,

As a frequent armchair archie, I get a kick out of how sensitive some of the real ones get sometimes when you question their work.  One particular practitioner who I play with on a semi-regular basis only needs to be asked what was he thinking when he designed some feature which appears to be out of place and he goes ballistic.  Of course, he can dish it out as well and it is all great fun.

I've been around several construction sites and it is therapeutic just observing.  The shapers in particular are fun to watch.  I suspect that after doing it a few times, perhaps the work becomes routine for them.  Thus far, I've been unable to convince anyone to let me have a hand at it.  It must be very intrinsically rewarding to see one's work come out of the ground and enjoyed by thousands of people.
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Gary_Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Dirt time needed
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2004, 02:01:11 PM »
What I saw on Friday at The Mines was a golf course being created from a forest.  Little minds like myself wouldn't see the golf course from the trees... but Mike DeVries did and that's what I most enjoyed.  

All I did was push a bit of dirt around on the driving range.

Joe and the crew were shaping greens and hills... trying to create something that looked like it was always there.  We too easily dismiss something as looking artificial.  Now I can appreciate how very hard it is to make something look natural.

That's magic.  I'm glad I saw it.  I hope others will too.

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