[Anthony_Nysse]

Got the chance to once again play Belfair this past Friday (25 degree wind chill and 35 degree temp ). Having played both courses several times, I'm a bit surprised that neither course is ever mentioned here. For those of you who don't know, Belfair is a 36 hole, Tom Fazio design. The West opened in 1995 and the East in 1999. The East course has bentgrass greens also. I think that both course offer great variety, with the West having some really outstanding holes along Coleton River. (14, 16, 17 and 18) Both course have very good bunkering, very good greens, great uses of the native oak trees, alot of sandy waste area. I also really like how Fazio built 2 greens on the West #6. In my opinion, The West course in the 2nd best course in the area, behind Long Cove. I personally think, hole for hole, it is just as good as Harbour Town.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Anthony - the West Course is somewhat forgetable, but The East may be my favorite Hilton Head Course!  It has wonderful flow, variety, rythym, suspense, crescendo, climax...  It's the Full Monte and my choice of the many nice courses on the island.

JC

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jonathon,
  Why do you say that the West is somewhat forgetable with #2 being a good risk-reward, reachable par 5, #3 being a long par 3 with all carry over a waste area to a small green, the short par 4, 4th with it's heavily contoured green, #6 with it's two very differerent and difficult greens #9 running next to the water with two huge, old oak trees on the right side, #12 with the water on the left and oak trees requiring a high draw to get home in two, #13 green sticking out into Colleton River after a blind drive, #14 next to the river and then #16-18 with may be equal to the best finishing holes in the area? I really think that the greens at BFW are some of Fazio's more bold and better greens that he's done in a while. I also think that BFW has a good set of par 4 that, with a good drive leaving only a 75 yard pitch in, (#4, #6, #11, #17)

[Joe Hancock]

Tony,

OK, since we're friends.....

Most of the adjectives you used to describe this place has to do with water. You are sure that your analysis is correct, and I know your knowledge level, it goes beyond "holes are good that are near water".

What other design elements or strategies are incorporated at these courses that made them exciting, and good golf holes?

BTW, we have a tee time on the 11th, near Tampa. Remember I'm coming from winter, and will require strokes.....

Joe

[Anthony_Nysse]

Joe,
   I figured that I'd have to give your Northern self some strokes!!!

[John Foley]

Anthony,

Did you like Belfair etter than Berkeley Hall?

JF

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  Yes, I like Belfair better than Berkeley Hall, though I think that Fazio did the best he could with each piece of land. I think that Belfair has much better shot values, more interesting bunkering, greens and also better better options off the tee. I think that BHall is a very, very good members course where you're not going to shoot 95 everytime out there, where as I feel that Belfair is a better players course...more carries, less open coridoors to greens, greens within greens, etc...

[Jonathan Cummings]

Anthony,

On a Doak scale I think there are a ton of 5s in Hilton Head.  The Colletons, Tabby, Sea Pines, Chechesee, Berkeley Halls, Dufuskie courses are all examples, like Belfair West, of just nice courses.  Harbor Town and Love Cove are a notch above these (although I have never been particularly hot on either). But in my book, because of the wonderfully diverse piece of property and sheer hole-to-hole visual and shot variety, the new Belfair course beats them all.  I also am well aware that my opinion is probably not shared by a lot of others.

JC

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jonathon,
  I will NEVER understand why people think that Old Tabby is so good. I thought that it was a normal Palmer course at best. I thought that it could have been MUCH better.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Jonathan,
I agree with you. Belfair East doesn't get the credit it deserves.  Better than West and better than most of the other stuff around there.  I can't imagine how Golfweek can't find a spot for it.

[rgkeller]

Jonathan,
I agree with you. Belfair East doesn't get the credit it deserves.  Better than West and better than most of the other stuff around there.  I can't imagine how Golfweek can't find a spot for it.

Probably insufficient advertising buys.

[Jonathan Cummings]

RGK - sounds spot on! - not enough GW raters paid off (yeah right)

[Mark Brown]

Having lived in the Hilton Head area since 1981, I've played the top courses quite a few times and think that both Belfair courses are very good, and the West Course is one of the most beautiful courses in the Carolina Lowcountry and the U.S. for that matter. It's a good parkland design with a lot of good holes but is not walkable because there's a good 1/2 mile break to get to and from holes 13 thru 15, that go out to
the marsh and river.

From a pure design standpoint, the East Course is very different and stronger with more strategy and nicely contoured and crowned bentgrass greens -- although the real estate breaks up some of the continuity on a couple of the holes on the back nine and the finish is not as strong as the West Course.

If I had to rank the greater Hilton Head area courses....

1. Long Cove -- Great shaping and greensites
2. Harbour Town which has made some very good       improvements, including conditioning(people flip flop on these two constantly)  
3. Colleton River - Dye
4. May River at Palmetto Bluff - Nicklaus (which is incredibly
5. Belfair - West                                   good - might be 3.
6. Belfair - East
7. Colleton River - Nicklaus
8. Chechessie Creek - C&C
9. Secession (always controversial because of the tough site)
10. Old Tabby - Spring Island (Palmer) has been over-rated because of the setting
11. Haig Point (Daufuskie Island)
12. Melrose (Daufuskie Is.)- under-rated - a lot of good and fun holes(Nicklaus)
13. Berkeley Hall- North - Fazio
13. Dataw Is. - Cotton Dike - Fazio
14. Oldfield - Norman
15. Berkeley Hall - South
           Note: Ford Plantation (Dye) is in GA.

But what do I know?

[tlavin]

Mark Brown,

What an awesome list!  I'm one of those who tend to rate Old Tabby highly, but you are quite correct: it's because of the spectacular setting and the ambience of the whole place.  I might be accused of being biased because I'm seriously contemplating buying a home on Long Cove, but I think Hilton Head, pound for pound, is really hard to beat for quality golf.

In terms of Belfair, I think that it is far superior to Berkeley Hall in every way except for the possibility of the practice facility.  I enjoyed both courses and I really enjoyed the clubhouse and men's grill/lockerroom areas.  It's a special place.

But it's not Long Cove, by any stretch.  That is a special spot.

[Mark Brown]

TL

Old Tabby is a great experience, and I'm not sure I should say this but they had Crenshaw & Coore tabbed for the design and Palmer helicoptered in to Spring Island and persuaded Jim Chaffin to give it to him. What a shame.

Can you imagine what C&C could have done there? And the whole Belfair atmosphere is the epitomy of the charm of the Carolina Lowcountry.

Harbour Town has withstood the test of time with the Tour players, but when I go through it hole by hole it just doesn't measure up to Long Cove. It's a great test of golf but Long Cove is so much more and when the course is fast and firm it gives anyone all they can handle. The contouring of both the fairways and greensites are nothing short of genius - and it had a few of them working on it - like Doak. All the Best, Mark

[John Foley]

How can C&C build only the 8th best course in the Low Country? Is it that the property is that indistinguisable from the others in the area or does is fall due to the lack of open water holes?

[Mark Brown]

John,

I hate to even comment because of my friendship with Ben and Bill and the developer and GM. It's a good site and  a good course, but not one that I'm drawn to play a lot. The golf experience is excellent and the caddies are good.

A little earth-moving would have helped, but my main disappointment with its is the nature of the greensites, which have a Raynor influence. As with Yeaman's Hall in Charleston the greens look like a piece of cake, and at Yeaman's it works because the greens are fairly wide and large.

At Chechessee there's some excellent greensites and putting surfaces but IMHO there are too many that are narrow, and if you miss the relatively small greens it's extremely difficult to get up and down out of the Bermuda rough in which the ball often sinks down almost to the ground. This takes some of the fun out of playing for me. Some others rate it higher, but the fact that it is taking a long time to sell-out the membership, I think, confirms mine, and others, opinions.

[Zack Kelly]

I would like to offer a response to Mark's last post about CCC and the greens being small and the difficulty of getting up and down.  I believe that the Greens at CCC are a great putting surface and give the short 6600 course some teeth.  I would agree that getting up and down at CCC is extremely difficult but not unfair, it certainly challenges the imagination and makes you hit all different types of shots from around the greens.  The key to playing well at CCC is missing your shots in the correct areas around the greens.  CCC forces you to think your entire way around the golf course never letting up.  I haven't played many courses in the low country, but if CCC ranks #8 I'd love to play the other 7, they must be some of the best tracks in the states.  
Thanks

[kurt bowman]

I think the experience at CCC is one of the best in the HHI area. I have not played Secession GC but I have heard it is one of the best experiences in all of golf. I think the issue of getting up and down around the greens is more of an agronomic issue than a design issue.
I believe coastal bermuda was chosen as the rough grass- which is uncommon for it to be used in a golf course. The coastal bermuda is a pature grass typically, but does have a nice mint green color that gives a good contrast between 419 bermuda in the fairway's. The obvious big downside is that a golf ball almost always nestles to the bottom so it is very difficult to find your ball in the rough, and even harder to play it out.
The green complex's at CCC remind me more of Ross than Raynor IMHO. Having said all that I think I may rate CCC a bit higher than what Mark Brown has.  It is very hard when you are rating a golf course to seperate the experience from the overall design integrity etc.. Kurt Bowman

[Michael Whitaker]

Kurt - You guys hit a home run with the May River Club. I walked the front nine with Jack Nicklaus when he played the ceremonial "first" round for the grand opening and all I can say is, "WOW!" Unfortunately, I had to leave early and didn't get to see the back, but I've been told it is spectacular. Congratulations to all concerned!

[kurt bowman]

Michael-
I am happy that you enjoyed the Grand Opening at the May River GC @ Palmetto Bluff.  It certainly was a special piece of property, and Crescent Resource gave us every resource we needed to create a truly special golf course. I know Jim Lipe, JWN, myself, and everyone involved in the construction are very proud of what we accomplished. I having nothing but fond memories and miss living in the lowcountry. I hope you and some of the GCA ers have a chance to get out there and play it.

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