$10 million endowment to renovate and maintain OSU's Scarlet and Gray courses

[ChipOat]

From a blurb in the recent Golf World.

How that money is put to use for both of those activities (especially the "improvements") ought to be a lively topic around here for a good while.  At least I hope it is - what a great opportunity for either goat or glory.

Does Tom MacWood or anyone else have any insights at this early stage?

Is there another Yale in the making or will Geoff Childs ride in and save the day?

[JLahrman]

They've been making changes/improvements to the Scarlet over the past several years--redoing the 17th green, adding new back tees on 11 and 15, etc.  Is there a specific laundry list of work to do?  Will this endowment fund previously scheduled work or is it going to enable a new stage to be started?

[Gerry B]

there is only one Yale

[Mike_Sweeney]

Off-topic Ohio State basketball diversion:


Tom MacWood,

What happened with Jim O'Brien (the coach on loan from Boston College !) ? It sounds like his heart was in the right place, but still was not the smartest move based on the seat he occupied.

[David Wigler]

They way I hear it, the endowment was originally intended to pay to import foriegn basketball players and for Maurice Clarett's legal fees.  Now that Clarett is gone and O'Brien is gone, they are retasking it for the golf course.  

[SL_Solow]

David; sounds like a good idea.  If only Michigan had saved the money given to the fab 5, you might have been able to do better than Art Hills for the work done to the good Dr.'s course.

[A_Clay_Man]

Touche' Shel.  

Go Big Blew

[David Wigler]

David; sounds like a good idea.  If only Michigan had saved the money given to the fab 5, you might have been able to do better than Art Hills for the work done to the good Dr.'s course.

Shel - Please do not paint the Fab Five with that brush.  Howard came out of Cabrini Green and never took a buck, Jackson and King were from impovershed areas and were clean, even Jalen Rose from inner city Detroit was clean.  It was only the middle class kid from Southfield - Chris Webber - who decided he was above the law.  

[CharlestonBuckeye]

$10m.  Approximately the amount of Gary Moeller's bar tab one infamous night!

[Dub_ONeill]

The Columbus paper had a story this morning describing this donation.  The article said that it is a bequest that will total about $10 million dollars by the time the estate is closed and will be a permanent endowment for the golf course complex at OSU.  The first phase funded by it is to begin in the near future on the Scarlet Course.  Bids and proposals are being sought to rework the greenside bunkers to reflect their original design and improve drainage, to recontour five (unspecified) greens, to rework/move a number of fairway bunkers, and to improve the range.  Weiskopf is the only individual specifically named as interested.  This phase is to be finished by 2006 in time for the next NCAA's at the Scarlet.  Sounds like the perfect second project for the Doak/Nicklaus team.

[patrick_burton]

For better or worse, I think the Weiskoff team has this job - at least that's been the rumor for years. The other firm that has always been involved with the courses is Hurdzan/Fry -- however, Dr. Mike has always been adimant that the courses don't need to be overhauled.

Originally the course was slated for a $5 Million renovation several years ago - but, our brilliant athletic director, Andy Geiger, overspent our stadium renovation budget by some $60 Million - so the Scarlet renovation was then put on hold indefinately.

For those of you that don't know the significance of the Scarlet Course, it was one of Mackenzie's last - he died shortly after he routed it, and the work was carried on by his wife and partner at the time, Perry Maxwell. Though the routing is solid, probably one of the best in the midwest, the bunkering and green contouring is anything but Mackenzie-like. It'd be my guess whomever gets the work won't be - "restoring" bunkers and greens - instead the decison will either be to "faithfully restore" greens and bunkers ala Mackenzie's style - or - to simply fix the agronomic problems and preserve Maxwell's work.

Go Bucks!

-JJ  

[Brad Swanson]

Last week on yet another house hunting trip in Columbus (the last one, finally), I stopped by the Scarlet to ask the pro about the renovations during a rainy day.  From what I remember, I thought he said they weren't going to mess with the greens, and that the main thrust of the renovations was to redo the bunkering in more of a Mackenzian-style, as well as move some bunkers tp put them back into play.  The pro also mentioned some tree removal (which he said they had already done to some degree) as well as moving a tee or 2 to accomodate a better practice facility.  He certainly didn't give-up who would be getting the job after my prodding him with some names (he may not know though).

The best thing he said to me was that OSU faculty can play for $30.  

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Lou_Duran]

JJ,

What are the source documents which show Maxwell to have been involved at Scarlet?  From what Tom MacWood shared with us on this site, I was under the impression that Maxwell was never brought on to do the work.

It still amazes me that those Depression-era clay based greens survived this long with all the play and lack of care the course receives.  Personally, I don't have a problem at all with the greens design.  When they are firm and fast they can be extremely difficult to putt.  I still remember the snake I made from the back left on #13 to a front right pin position in the club championship in 1977.  Not so rosy are my memories of a three putt on the out-of-character 17th green in 1978 which led to my demise in OT.

[patrick_burton]

Lou,

It's been awhile since I've revisited this subject -- my recollection was that it was a discussion between myself and someone from Hurdzan/Fry's staff about Maxwell's involvement. I have always been under the impression that he and the Good Dr's wife continued the work. I think there's a letter from her hanging up in the clubhouse - but I can't remember the sediments of it... sorry.

As for similar courses, Purdue Univ's original course is a Maxwell layout and has the similar non-discript bunkering and flat - pitched greens of Scarlet. I can see the resembelence in the work.

Perhaps someone can provide the link from Tom Macwood's earlier discussions on this, or he might chime in himself??

-JJ

[Brad Swanson]

Jack,
   Comparing Maxwell's work at other university courses, his greens at Veenker Memorial, Iowa State's former home course, were anything but flat.  The few originals left are quite small with one large "maxwell roll" (sometimes a coule of smaller ones) placed at varying angles to the approach to really make finding the pins difficult, and putting to them from the wrong side even worse!  
http://www.fpm.iastate.edu/veenker/
The picture of the green on their homepage illustrates this nicely
His bunkers that remain are well placed but visually featureless
and boring.


Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Lou_Duran]

JJ,

Just click on "MY HOME COURSE" on the left, and on the second bold item ("The Ohio State U.......... by Tom M.").  It appears that Maxwell's design role is unknown, and that he had relatively little to do with the construction of the course.

Lou