[ian]

The 8th at Riviera has been discussed at length. I think Tom (Marzoff/Fazio?) did the right thing by bringing back the alternate fairway. I don’t remember anyone arguing against this.




Since playing there this spring, I have wondered if the concept would have worked better if they had simply removed all the trees between the fairways. I removed them from the image and was quite sure this improved the hole. I then found myself looking at the bunker and thinking if they would have only duplicated another bunker on the course with raised fingers and more of Thomas’s style, the bunker would have fit in better. Finally, I found myself comparing the flat fairway on the right and the lumpy, bumpy fairway on the left. The right fairway would have felt much better if it were inspired by the left fairway.

So I painted in each change, as I thought about them, and the result is below. Thought some of you might be interested to se the result.



Its too bad, but the "rough" edges of the bunker lines are lost at this scale. I used one of the existing bunkers to get the lines.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ian,

I liked the treeless photo.

I wonder, if a bunker complex similar to that at # 8 at NGLA were inserted where the trees are, how would the hole play, and look ?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ian, You have got to be kidding me............

The New "Alternate" fairway at Riviera is a joke that requires little intengrity and isn't anything close the original, expecially the Tom Marzalotov-inspried crown that is now part of that green. The new tie-in to that green is one of the worst I have ever seen as far as consruction is concerned.

I had a friend that played there yesterday and he will more then likely make a follow-up post. He was just stupified by how bad it was and how out of tune it was with the rest of the course. (Other then the other Marzalotovian changes that are at #5, 7, 8, 13 & 17 which are just as hideous.)

Please do not consider this post mean spirited in anyway. Its not nearly as mean spirited as the changes that have occured at Riviera by such an inept authority on George Thomas as Marzatovski.

[Brian Phillips]

Tommy,

Did Tiger not use the left side option during the Nissan Open?

Brian

[ian]

Tommy,

I forgot about the green expansion. Your point is taken, but the post had nothing to do with the green and everything to do with putting the alternate fairway back.

Is it in the wrong place? Where is it supposed to be?

[Mike_Cirba]

Ian;

Do you have any close up photos of the brand-new bunker that was created on the right side?

I remember standing around it with my foursome in slack-jawed dismay for about 2-3 minutes.  

[ian]

Mike,

Sorry, I do not. The bunkers on #7 and #8 certainly did not look like the others. The rest of the course seems evolved or "hand made", those bunkers looked very much created by machines. Others here definately do have those images, because they have been posted in the past. I still think a different technique could have done wonders.

[Tom_Doak]

Ian,

I'm at home, so I don't have my copy of Thomas' book handy, but if I remember correctly he had a diagram of that hole in his book, and trees in between the fairways were part of his design.

I haven't seen the hole since the new fairway was added so I can't comment on how the trees factor into play.

[Brian Phillips]

Tom,

The drawing that I can find (similar to the 8th) is on page 107 of the 1997 reprint of the book but he doesn't mention Riviera.

Gil Hanse has also drawn trees on the drawing he did for Geoff Shackelford in Grounds for Golf.  In The Captain Geoff has not put in any trees....so now I have no idea!!

Brian

[Geoff_Shackelford]

The trees were planted in all of the photos I've seen of Riviera around it's opening and while Thomas-Bell were involved.

The trees do not deter players from choosing the optional route, the position of the tee does. However, the trees are blamed for the poor reception of the "restoration."

Taking the trees out will not make the carry to the optional fairway any shorter, re-positioning the tee would. This still would not resolve the horrible work done to the green, or improve the character of the corporate tent pad/right fairway.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Geoff Shackelford,

How extensive would the work be in order to correct the problems at the tee, fairway and green ?

[ian]

Tom,

I do not have either book at home, and I just started painting for fun this morning. I now wish I had checked the book on Monday before posting the photo, but such is life.

When I was at Riviera somebody had mentioned removing the trees between fairways and I just kinda got curious about what it would look like.

Geoff,

I had assumed (usually a bad start) that there was no trees origionally. It's interesting that they had planted between the fairways. What would have been the reasoning?

Would it have been smarter to leave the hole the way it was before the recent changes, or would have been better to let someone else restore the hole correctly?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Ian,
Sorry for drifting there! I get pretty emotional when the positive talk about Riviera when its anything but that!

Also see Geoff's book "The Captain" which hi-lights the hole better. From what I know of it the fairway is not close to being the same.

[Mike Erdmann]

Maybe I'm not following this correctly, but has the position of the tee been moved?  If not, then was the original alternate fairway awkward, or has the fairway been restored in such a way that's not keeping with the original design?

[ian]

Mike,

Again, I've proved I'm not the most knowledgeable guy on Riviera, but I was under the impression that it was moved to the right.

Tommy,

I will go back and check "The Captain" and likely cringe when I realize what I have done

[Lynn_Shackelford]

The hole was changed for two reasons.  One to lengthen it, which required moving the tees back and over to the right.  This effectively eliminates the option of playing the left side.  The second reason for putting in the fairway on the right was to provide room, one of the fairways, for hospitality tents for the US Open which they have never been awarded.
Why the green was altered I cannot answer.  But I can say the alteration has not been well received by Tour players or members.  

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