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John_D._Bernhardt

A great Course, necessary elements
« on: July 09, 2001, 04:14:00 AM »
It is good to be home! While I was gone, my project has made a huge step forward in that my new landowner has agreed to terms and hopefully our sale will close within 10 days. Knock on wood.lol Therefore, what essential elements should be a part of the design to be viewed in a positive manner by the treehouse. The land in rolling with 25 feet of topography ( alot in south Louisiana) and fronts on a bayou, which in this case will probably remain treelined to avoid permitting issues. The tract is 35% mature trees, mostly oaks and other hardwoods. We have talked about balance of strong par 3's, front to back greens, strategic traping, movement of fairways left ot right or vice versa. Assume the land allows for multiple choices as to routing by the design team. To rephrase, what features and different strategic elements would need to be present to cover as many of the bases as possible to allow the course to be viewed in positive light we look for here except the historical element which is impossible.

Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2001, 04:55:00 AM »
John, I reccommend reading Jeremy Glenn's post on his winter walk at Banff. Outstanding. I don't know if it is archived here but if he's lurking maybe he would post it again. Or, I'm sure he would be happy to email it to you.
"chief sherpa"

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2001, 08:32:00 PM »
John, I very much agree with Pete about reviewing Jeremy's essay on the routing as a concept of a journey of discovery of the property's assets.  That journey-routing should floolw a certain logic as to how one would set about exploring an interesting property.  

One question that comes to mind is the frequency of the elevation changes.  Is it a very gradual and subtle rise and fall of the 25 ft elevation change that I imaging that area of the country typically flows; or does this property have a bit of quirk and atypical character with high frequency of hills and depressions, bowls and eskar like features.  If it is a high frequency rolling terrain, you are lucky and I would urge you to concentrate on use of the contour as naturally as possible rather than artificially shape out fairway movement.  That is an ideal though and probably not likely in that region.  If it is more like the subtle long flow rises and falls, I would pay particular attention to techniques of manufactured terrain features and one place I would study the heck out of is Yeaman's Hall.  If you have to shine up the land for golf strategy and feature creation, I really think that Raynor and Langford are two models that should be studied.  Too many archies are falling into the typical large beast burial cemetaries to corridor the golf holes.  If you have room, don't be afraid to leave those areas of hole separation un-dozed and shaped as much as possible.  

I also assume that rainfall and drainage to take the water off efficiently is very problematic for Louisiana.  Again, many of the old masters had some real savvy about moving water on the surface with cleaver drainage ways just outside of typical areas of play around the fairways.  Does you soil perculate quickly or is it tight and resistent to fast infiltration.  That question would have to be a real priority to answer before you can really shape out a general terrain-strategy concept.

Without a doubt, Jeff B and Tom D are the ones to really respond to this post.  But, excuse my ramblings because this is the type of question that really keeps me interested here on the DG inorder to satisfy the hobby.-obsession with GCA.  No doubt everyone on the panel here would love a topo map of your land to imagine their own creative routings...

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John_D._Bernhardt

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2001, 05:21:00 PM »
Thanks guys, one worries that to try to include so many of the great thoughts found here, that one might trick up a course. I have good drainage. The soils are loamy for the most part with some clayed area in lower areas. The topography is fairly sharp. Not cliff like, but 5 to 20 degree slope. I think for the area of the world the property is very receptive to a superior course. There is only one in the state on land as good as this.

aclayman

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2001, 08:04:00 PM »
John- Glad to hear of the progress, no matter how small. I can't help but believe how great the course will be. Mostly because you didn't mention demographics or market share or any of the factions that pull a project in the wrong direction. All you want is the best golf course that can be made. I value this attitude above all else.

I know nothing, but if you give the golfer  several options to attack a hole along with a good surface to execute the shot he is capable of, all will be right with the world.

As far as not throwing to much into the mix, I wonder if moderation is the key to your personal style or thinking.

I can tell you that trying to accomidate everyone can lead to a fickle direction or at least, perception.


John_D._Bernhardt

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2001, 08:01:00 AM »
Adam, by the time I see you in august I should have all in writing and the fuse will be burning to build the course. I am looking forward to playing with you and the other guys.

aclayman

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2001, 10:23:00 AM »
John- August won't be the same without me.   I'm sorry but as of yet I have made no plans to be up north then.

I have been thinking about the Q at hand and I was thinking about how/what comprises great strategic design.  From my limited studies it appears  to always involve feature(s) that is(are) to be avoided, whether that feature is a hazard or an incorrect angle in. I bet if a designer could put in as many elements as is neccesary to make the course both penal and easy, depending on ones ability, perception of ability and what game shows up that day, will guarantee return visits from the core group of golfers I'm sure you want to attract.


John_D._Bernhardt

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2001, 08:40:00 AM »
Adam I need to get with you for the August trip west. I am going to look for you number in the morning. thanks John

aclayman

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2001, 09:43:00 PM »
John- mudder@msn.com if needed


Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2001, 11:34:00 AM »
Just  as a good fishing guide will set us up with the right gear, all according to the season and daily conditions, so should a great golf course be predisposed to the art of caddying.

In my opinion, greatness in golf course design and presentation, may be measured,  among other things, by how  it lends itself to the role of the caddy.

We are inclinded to think that the dying art of caddying is the result of the golf car, but I believe it has as much or more to do with the dearth of thoughful design.

Ask anoyone who has played the Old Course, to recount the experience, and they will invariably relate something about their caddy.

Build a golf course that empowers the knowing and phlegmatic caddy, and you will achieve greatness.


JSS

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2001, 01:15:00 PM »
Can anyone direct me to Jeremy Glenn's post mentioned above on Banff.  Thanks.

RJD

A great Course, necessary elements
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2001, 04:40:00 PM »
click on "in my opinion" on left border of this page.

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