Fenway Observation

[Paul Perrella]

 There was a thread a short while ago about Fenway but I couldn't find it so I will start a new one. It is inconceivable to me that Fenway is not a top hundred course on at least "this" planet. This course has some of the best variety in 18 golf holes that I've ever seen. The course starts you off with a drivable par 4 and returns you back uphill to the second where, with the pin cut on the left side, it just begs you to challenge the left bunker.
 The last four holes may be the most varied ending to any course I've ever played. The 15th is a 295 yard uphill dogleg left that allows you to play it any way you wish. My 3 wood left me with about 70 yards to a well protected green that just scares the heck out of you. #16 is a 430 yard downhill dogleg right that has a couple of beautiful bunkers behind the green. #17 is a 170 yard par three with a small pond on the front and right sides of the green. It is the only water on the course. The finishing hole is a 580 yard uphill par 5 that gets extremely narrow as you approach the green.
 The tee shots must be well played to have the proper angle to the greens but the green complexes are the strength of the course. When I was finished one of my first thoughts was that every tree on the course could be cut down and the course would still have the same challenges.
 I am very interested in other peoples comments regarding this course. I found it to be more interesting and varied than Winged Foot without the constant 2 iron approaches. One of my thoughts is that Fenway is to Winged Foot what NGLA is to Shinnecock, every bit the challenge but without the length.
         Paul

[Jeff_Mingay]

It seems to me that Fenway is an ideal example -- a case study, if you will -- of what can be had as a result of thoughtful course restoration.

Not long ago, very few people had even heard of Fenway. Now, following Hanse & Co.'s (seemingly) excellent work, Fenway has more then once been heralded as a "top 100" layout.

Wonderful stuff.

[Anthony_Pioppi]

Paul,

Last year Geoff Childs (who just celebrated his ??th birthday, but I didn't tell you that) began touting Fenway to Golfweek Raters. At the time I thought he might have been overstating what was there, but in fact, he had understated how great Fenway is. As a result, a parade of Golfweek raters have visited the place and it debuted at 80 on our Classical list this year. I would not be surprised to see it move up considering more work is planned such as the addition of fairway bunkers on the first hole. I understand tree removal may also still be in the works.

[Ran Morrissett]

Paul,

I agree with everything that you wrote and when we started off its course profile with the sentence "Is Fenway A.W. Tillinghast's finest design?", we meant it as a serious question worth considering.

Of course, it hasn't hosted an event of national importance in quite a while, so I wonder what it will take for people (especially panelists) to view it in the same light as Winged Foot or Quaker Ridge?

Cheers,

PS Speaking of Quaker Ridge, I reckon a Walker Cup would be ideal for Fenway too.

[Paul Perrella]

 Ran,

I spoke with Heath Wassem the head pro and he mentioned that Fenway would be looking for some tournaments in the future. It seemed some national recognition was a direction the club did want to go in. I think with the clubhouse restoration, Bob Alonzi on board and the course being what it is there is a feeling that all of the components are in place for the club to take its place among the elite. I feel it is already there.
                Paul

[GeoffreyC]

I even loved Fenway before the restoration but now I agree with Paul that it should be among the elite.  Those green complexes are what do it. Shame that Bethpage doesn't have anything resembling them or it would be top 10 real easy.

I believe Fenway would be a great spot for a mid-am or Amateur.  Imagine the match play decisions on the tee boxes of #1 (which would play as #4 because they start at #7 for tournament play and go thru #9 then on to 1, 2 and 3 for the front 9) and #15! A Walker Cup would be fine as well. Stroke play at Fenway is really tough and without water hazards. Steve Frankel told us that the scores at the local amateur tournaments held at Fenway are considerably higher with basically the same field as they are just down the road at Quaker Ridge.

I wish they would get on with a bit of a tree removal binge and the place would be more amazing.

[BillV]

Fenway is a wonderful set of greens, a fine routing and layout and is being recognized for its greatness appropriately.

I has, however still a great need for tree management on #8, 17, 18 especially and probably on 13, 14 as well and the back tee on #14 is awkward at best.  These items keep Fenway from being its best.

It is a world class set of greens there, however. That accounts for the resistance to scoring seen in the tone-a-mints.

[Ran Morrissett]

Geoffrey, Here's to hoping that the successful tree removal campaign that is occuring at nearby Winged Foot will help inspire the board at Fenway to continue with their great work and pursue removing several hundred trees. If they do so, I reckon they'll have a world top 50-60 golf course.

[Jeff_Lewis]

Let's all simmer down a bit...this is a wonderful set of green complexes. As good as we will find anywhere, but tee to green this fun little course just doesn't stand up to the names you guys are throwing around. If this course had  Bethpage-type greens, it wouldn't be number 300 in the US.

[Ran Morrissett]

Jeff,

Same could be said for Augusta National but alas, it doesn't have Bethpage-like greens either.

Also, at 6,700 yards against a par of 70, calling Fenway a little course is misleading for 99.99% of golfers. The good golfer isn't given any easy three shot holes to devour plus its monster one shot holes like 6 and 11 are bogies waiting to happen for any class golfer.

[Jeff_Lewis]

6 and 11 are certainly monsters, but I still don't think the tee-to-green aspects of this course are on the overall scale of any of Tillie's more well-known efforts. I like this course a lot, though,  and think that the bunker restoration here should be an example for other courses of this vintage to follow.

[GeoffreyC]

Jeff

Yes, 6 and 11 are monsters but #4 is very short and requires precision to put the ball on the correct area of the green or 2-putts are really a huge chore.  6 and 11 are uphill but 17 is downhill.  It called variety requiring different skills.

#,s 7 and 8 are back to back challenging 4 pars under 400 yards but 2 and 5 are brutes over 450 yards.  Variety that requires short irons, good driving, long irons and woods.  Then when your get to the greens you had better have a deft putting touch and short game. That's just the front 9.  It gets better on the back. Look at Ran's course profile. If this is your idea of a "little fun course", I'm really looking forward to seeing how far you go in the US Am later this month   !

On a side note, the restoration done by Gil Hanse and crew is a model for true and ARTISTIC work.  It contrasts with the work done down the street at Quaker Ridge, a compirable Tillinghast gem, which is serviceable but obvious where the new bunkers were built and the original "tillinghast style bunkers" remain. Fenway's work is so much better and in fact the bunkers are harder at Fenway as are the greens as are the decisions and execution required to hit the greens.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Does anyone know about the origins of the name Fenway?  Is that the community it's located in?  Is there a connection with Fenway Park?

[Paul Perrella]

  Scott,

The property was originally owned by James Fenimore Cooper and for the first few years the course was called Fenimore. I'm told that there is quite a bit of history that goes along with this great course and I will pass it along as I learn the specifics. The course is, I believe, tecnically located in Scarsdale NY but is only about 1 mile from Winged Foot which is in Mamaroneck.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul,

Located just off Fenimore road !

[Ran Morrissett]

From tee to green, doesn't Fenway enjoy more topography than either WF West or Quaker Ridge?