Inniscrone & the defense of par

[Mike_Cirba]

With apologies to Rjbay, who started the recent thread about what architects and superintendents can do to protect the game and our courses against the longest hitters, I would like to start one specific to Inniscrone, where some of us are getting together later this week.

Yesterday, my posts on the subject under RJ's thread took on a defeatist quality, and I even mentally conceded that perhaps we'd simply have to accept a future where 7400 yard and greater courses would be the status quo.

I thought about this in the shower this morning, and I recalled something I'd seen on television earlier this year.  There was a Monday event called the Excelon Invitational, hosted at Inniscrone, and featured the star foursome of Davis Love III, David Duval, Jim Furyk, and Sergio Garcia.  I was unable to attend the event in person, but in watching a replay on television some weeks later, I simply couldn't believe how the course gave these guys all they could handle and more.

The format was Skins, so I'm not sure how these great players would have fared under standard medal format, but let's just say there were few birdies and quite a number of "others".  

I have my own thoughts on the reasons why such a shortish course was able to drive these guys a little nuts, but I'd rather start this thread and then here from people who've played there who can offer their own thoughts.

Perhaps, in a helpful way, we can look at Inniscrone as a microcosm of some architectural and maintenance practices that may have greater general applicability.  

It will be interesting to see what we can all learn and share.

[JamieS]

Mike,

The 4some you mention actually played "last" years Excelon Invitational, and it was held at Wyncote.

This years event, which I did attend, was held at Inniscrone, and featured Jim Furyk, David Duval, Jesper Parnevik, and Joe Durant.

The golf course did hold its own from what I saw, I left after the 11th hole because there were too many people there to really see the action properly.

The golf course was in perfect condition, and the greens were running very fast. I think the subtle elevation changes, green contours and general difficulty of the design all lead to tougher scoring conditions.

I look forward to seeing for myself this coming Thursday.

[Mike_Cirba]

Jamie,

Ooops...right course, wrong foursome!

I look forward to meeting you at Inniscrone this week.  Have you played the course before?

Personally, I think Stonewall and Inniscrone stand alone among modern area designs in offering amazingly different golf from what has been standard for courses built in the past 50 years.

[JamieS]

Mike,

I haven't played Inniscrone before, I have only seen the first 11 holes, at the Excelon tourney in June. From behind the ropes, it looked quite interesting.

I have played Stonewall, last years Phila.Am was hosted there. It became one of my favorite modern designs, and was a treat to play.

[Craig_Rokke]

For me, the approach shots were challenging. On a number of holes, hitting close to the green just doesn't get the job done--in fact you can end up in a heep of trouble. Steep drop-offs and tough bunkers (some of the best-looking I've seen, I might add) await your errant shot. A good chipping game is critical to scoring well at Inniscrone.
Playing the angles is also important (tree on #6).

[JamieS]

Craig,

Duval had to tangle with the tree on 6. He drove it in the right rough and actually hit a hook around the right side of the tree that ended up just in front of the green.

[Steve Wilson]

Oh gee, this is great.  I'm planning on traveling 450 miles with my 12 handicap and eggshell thin confidence to a course that handed some top pros their heads?  

And I'm going to pay money to humiliate myself and be humiliated?  Maybe I should have just contacted one of the sado-masochistic porn sites and given them my credit card number.

By 2PM Thursday I should have complicated my seamless transition to basket case.  (For details on my psychological condition see BarnyF's last thread.)

And, oh God help me, I'm looking forward to it.

[Mike_Cirba]

Steve,

Just stay below the hole.  

Which reminds me of the story of the golfer who cannot reach the hole in regulation figures and decides, "what is this nonsense of strategy and staying below the hole?  I CAN't possibly get past it!!!"

In any case, Steve, I'm sure you'll find yourself in non-intimidating company at the GCA event, so RELAX those phobias a bit or the inestimable Dr. Katz may be paying you a visit.  Most of the other fellows are at your handicap and above, except for a few mutational aberrations who actually can golf as well as they write here.

In any case, Steve, both the course at Inniscrone as well as the GCA folks I've met, have been part serious golf, part interesting and educational social intercourse, but mostly are about one simple word....FUN.

[Steve Wilson]

That wasn't a genuine cri de coeur, more of manic expression of my desire to participate with and meet this august, opinionated assemblage.

I do play to between ten and twelve, but every so often I churn out a round that just amazes me and makes me think I am so much better than I am. My last such round was on AUgust 4, so I'm probably not about to duplicate it. Averages don't lie.

As there is no competition, except with myself, I'm going to try to play this one shot at a time and attempt most of the shots I've pulled off at one time or another.  Knockdown wedges, scuttling long irons.  Hell, I may even try my "bunted" driver which flies about a hundred yards and runs nearly as far as that again.  

Tonight in my golf league I hit a retrograde (thanks to a tree) second shot on a 500+ par five and ended up blowing a four foot putt for par.  I also turned an easy 5 into an even easier 7 by trying to make an impossible 4.  

And as for staying under the hole, at what point, bogey, double bogey, or the dreaded other is it permissible to finally allow one's ball to go past the hole

[Matt_Ward]

Mike: Keep in mind that pros who play in one-day outings / special events may not know the contours of the greens and other strategic placements.

That is not to take anything away from the quality of Inniscrone which I have played and believe one of Phillie's best courses.

Give world class professionals the opportunity to know the greens and you will see low scores. It's important to remember that one-day events take on the air of exhibitions more so than an actual tournament on tour.

One last thing -- amateurs who play Inniscrone may not be able to hit the ball far enough to permit them to hit a shorter club into the green. Take the tremendous par-4 4th. The tee shot alone will intimidate amateur players. For the world class pro it's still a good hole but they have the ability to fit the tee shot correctly and set-up an approach shot angle that most amateurs would give their right arm for.

I was involved a few years ago with publicity for an exhibition called the CoreStates Classic held at Forsgate CC. In separate years the following players played: Tom Watson, Hale Irwin, Lanny Wadkins and I believe Billy Ziobro (head pro now at Atlantic City CC); the following year Nancy Lopez, Chi Chi Rodriguez, Paul Azinger and Gary McCord played.

In each instance there were holes that completely baffled a few of them. But trust me when pros are flying in from some distant location, usually the night before, and must go through all the hoopla expected of them when serving the needs of the event, the level of golf may not be at the highest point.

Inniscrone is an exceptional Gil Hanse effort and a course that offers a clear purpose on nearly every shot. However, don't read in too much about their play on one particular day.

What I think we can learn from Inniscrone is the excellent manner in which Gil has angled tees and fairways to give different perspectives into the green. Take the 4th again. From the championship marks the hole offers one look and from middle tees another.

Length is not the ultimate answer (i.e. the ANGC approach is foolhardy!) but understanding how angles can be intensifed to mandate proper position at all times. I am not an expert on course architecture / strategy and maybe Gil can enlighten all of those who gather this Friday (sadly I'll be at Bandon & Pacific Dunes) regarding his take on how angles can be used without resorting to sheer length as the ultimate answer.

I hope someone posts a thread on the results of Friday's get together. I'm sorry I can't attend but someone has to play Bandon and Pacific and on behalf of everyone at Inniscrone I volunteered.

[George Pazin]

"sadly I'll be at Bandon & Pacific Dunes"

...there's a phrase I didn't expect to ever see!