[Matt_Ward]

Heard from a reliable source which was later confirmed by a top USGA official that some course changes are in store for the Black.

The noted 6th plays 411 yards from the tips and the USGA WILL NOT provide fairway if you hit it past the top of the hill.

The top of the hill is about 270 yards before it descends abruptly. Initially, the USGA was to have grass grow at a height of one and a half inches where the hill starts and continue with that height all the way to the bottom.

Now, I've just heard the grass height will be allowed to grow to 3 inches to KEEP balls from rolling to the bottom. And, to completely penalize players with high grass should they seek an option the architect clearly intended.

To be totally frank -- I was amazed that the USGA would take one of the key elements of the hole out of play.

Clearly, many of the players have the ability to clear the top of the hill and get the benefit of the downslope. But, and this a big but, the key is keeping the ball in play given the tightness of any US Open fairway. Even as we speak today the fairway is no wider than 25 yards. Also, since the hole turns left quickly the ability to gauge how much to work the ball right-to-left is not an automatic shot -- even for the world's premier players.

Miss too far either left or right and you can be sure the demands in making a par-4 will be tested. I was told by this same USGA official that, in his opinion, once the players could see the benefits of hitting it over the hill they would do so.

My answer is fine -- let'em try. For those who do succeed the reward is a simply wedge shot from under 100 yards. But, this same USGA official failed to mention that a miss with such an aggressive play can result in severe consequences.

Tillie designed the 6th with a range of options. The USGA move to make players only hit to the top of the hill will transform a hole with character into one that is a one-way oriented test -- iron or short wood to the top of the hill and iron to the green. How utterly B-O-R-I-N-G !!!

Other changes are also planned ... more to follow ...

[Paul_Lorenzen]

Agree wholeheartedly... in essence the USGA would be turning the 6th into a short downhill par 3 since every player would be hitting a short iron from the same position after laying up the tee shot.

[slow and soft]

Funny how a 270 yard drive is now considered a layup. Tiger will be hitting 3 iron off the tee. Hold on to your hats. This is the sort of consideration that will go on at every U.S. Open from here on out--what to do about distance. Not that it hasn't always been a consideration. But U.S Open and "renovation" will now go hand in hand.

[Matt_Ward]

slow and soft:

If a player opts to take an aggressive line of play why should he be FORCED to lay up???

Taking clubs out of the hands of the player is LIMITING options instead of making the player decide -- especially a par-4 in excess of 400 yards.

I'd like to see the fairway be maintained as it is and give the player the CHOICE. Just like Paul mentioned the hole now becomes a repetitive exercise. A shame ...

[GeoffreyC]

Matt

Is golf becoming a one-dimentional game like tennis has become?  The fairway area down that hill is only 10-15 yds wide for everyday play.  As you said, the angle required to hit it from the tee requires a right to left ball flight. One would have to be really bold/crazy to risk a severe downhill lie from very deep grass on only the 6th hole of a stroke play event. The reward is a lob wedge instead of an 8 iron. But having the fairway as an option puts the thought into the players head and the USGA and PGA seem intent on removing interesting mental choices and instead replacing them with REPETITIVE grinding mental challenges.

More options and choices can only help to sort out those who think clearly under pressure and are then able to execute (in my opinion - but I could be wrong   )

[slow and soft]

Matt,

The way things are going these days, the only thing that will force a player from taking an "aggressive" line of play off the tee will be the threat of tee shots ending up in greenside bunkers.

I agree that they should be allowed to hit a small preferred landing area if they are skilled enough to do so. I am just saying that we need to get used to the idea that U.S. Open courses built at under 7000 yards may require significant "renovation" to square up the holes with today's golfers' distances. Nothing new here.

[BillV]

Just another sign how pro golf is in the shi**er.

It is unfortunate that the changes at Bethpage, ANGC and the like are going to heck to accommodate technology out of control.

I have yet to play Bethpage Black, so I unfortunately have no intelligent contrubation to make to the topic at hand.  But these general kinds of changes are bad for the game as "new" strategy develops and real strategy gets more and more alien to the most talented players and the new devotees of the game.   !  

[BV]

make that contribution ooops

[Scott_Burroughs]

I think they should keep it as it is, but I really don't think the risk/reward on that hole is much benefit.  The extreme precision needed to hit a perfect 320 yard drive with a draw to a 15 yard wide landing area that could be downhill sloping or in the rough is not enough of a reward.  Like Geoffrey said, a lob wedge versus 8 iron.  If the hole were 50-60 yards longer, I'd see the benefit, but in this case I don't.

The three holes surrounding #6, #4, 5, and 7, have much better risk/reward ratios in them.  #4 on both the drive and the decision to go for the green in two.  #5, how far to the right over the cross bunker do you dare go to get the best angle in?  #7, how much do you bite off to get a better chance of getting on in 2, versus the tighter landing area between the traps and the waste area and versus being behind the trees on the right side of fairway.

[Paul_Lorenzen]

Call me crazy, but why doesn't the USGA do the opposite? Expand the 6th fairway to 30-35 yds wide down the hill and let the pros decide how to hit the tee shot. High risk, high reward.

Also is #7 the 5 Par they are converting to a  par 4? If it is, I would love to offer some opinions about that.

[Matt_Ward]

A couple of quick responses.

A hole that patterns itself after the 6th at the Black is the 10th at Shinnecock Hills. Players are given the option of playing a cautious shot to the top of the hill and having anywhere from 150-200 yards to the narrow elevated green.

Players CAN TAKE an aggressive line (as many did with the 1986 and 1995 Opens) and try to reach the bottom of the line where they are left with a very short pitch shot.

If such a situation is good for Shinnecock why not for the Black???

When people say the difference in clubs is between an 8-iron and a wedge that's really a stretch.

In most cases the pros who opt to stay on the top shelf of the 6th hole will probably be hitting the green with a mid-iron unless they push the envelope and try to squeeze the tee shot between the two bunkers in the 250-270 range. A very dicey proposition.

Scott:

The premise that favors the bold drive on #6 is the benefit of hitting such a short side to look for a birdie. Put pros on the top and the bottom and it's my assumption the ones on the bottom will have more birdies than those from the top. There's no way I can prove this statement and since the USGA has taken this consideration out of play my statement will be nothing more than an educated guess.

GeoffreyC is absolutely right in my opinion regarding repetitive grinding mental challenges. The Open should not be a championship that says hit here and ONLY HERE!!!

Originality and creative shotmaking have disappeared and when courses have holes that encourage options they should be left as the original architect intended them to be.

When the pin is cut tight on the front left and right it takes a supreme shot from the top of the hill to hit and stay close.

slow and soft:

FYI -- Bethpage Black will play just under 7,300 yards as a par-70.

Paul:

The 7th at the Black will be changed to a par-4 at 480 yards.

Another interesting note -- the USGA will take the fairway cut IN FROM THE RIGHT and force players away from playing an aggressive line near the tree line. This will cause the hole to play a bit longer the stated yardage. Although the hole generally plays down wind I again question why such a tactic is thrwarted.

[soft and slow]

Matt,

Wow, it's even worse than I feared.

[Paul_Lorenzen]

I'm also guessing that many pros will be hitting 3wood off #7 tee to avoid going thru the fairway. Guess that 490 yard par 4s arent so long after all...

[Matt_Ward]

Paul:

That well may happen if the 7th is downwind which it usually is in the warm months 3 of every four days.

A key source at Bethpage mentioned to me that changing just three greens would have been very helpful. Those greens include the 2nd, 6th and 9th holes.

Where the final cuts are made regarding fairway lines will be an interesting development. The USGA has already allowed the rough to grow in closer from the left side of the 12th hole. You now must play your tee shot further right in order to keep it on the short grass.

FYI -- I was told the 12th will be extended even further back than it is today. My only question is if they any further back they'll be playing from the same location as the existing championship marks on the 10th!

I'm waiting for the 1st tee to be extended back to the practice putting green next!!!

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt,

You have failed in your assignment at the Tom Fazio-Redesign School of thinking "outside the box".

Couldn't a nice 1st hole tee box be built atop the roof of the Bethpage Clubhouse?  Think about the view from up there of the whole complex!  You could sell primo "skyboxes" for corporate types, and protect par all at the same time.

Ok...I'm still happy the US Open is going to a real public course, but I'm really starting to believe that the strategic interest in Bethpage will be fully eliminated by the event, with more boring bowling-alley golf the order of the day.

[Paul_Lorenzen]

Matt - How 'bout we take a chapter from Brookline- simply dump #1 (way too short)and replace it with #1 from Red? But that may still be too short...so let's use the tee from #1 Blue.

Mike - if BP Black is so public, please get me a tee time before 5pm  

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

What you're saying about a traditional boring bowling alley US Open seems the way things are headed.

It will be interesting to see what transpires this week with the MGA Open which will be played August 21-23.

The comments from the players should prove interesting.

One of the most important objectives in getting the Black ready for the 02 Open was to promote the use of the driver. Too many times you watch major championship golf and the players are deliberately laying back because the sponsoring organization (USGA, R&A, PGA) have eliminated that possibility.

Remember when the PGA was first at Valhalla (1996)? They didn't use the optional 9th fairway -- fortunately they changed their tune for last year's event.

Unless there is a some element of success most, if not all tour pros, will not hit driver. Setting up golf courses should take that in account and provide that option -- albeit with stiff penalties if the shot is not soundly executed.

What the USGA has done to the 6th hole is akin to them doing the same thing at the 10th at Shinnecock in 2004. Let it stay as fairway and the fun in watching players DECIDE will really increase for the fans.

That's just my humble opinion.

[Jamie_Duffner]

The more I read into this post the more nauseous I became over the changes to my beloved Black.  I hope the USGA doesn't make a mockery of it, but I think it's inevitable.

As for #6, that drive over the bunkers and down the hill is almost impossible and anything hit hard enough to get down the hill would almost have to roll through the fairway.  I think there is way too much risk to that play and that the smart play is a simple 250 to 260 play out to the right, with a 170ish approach.  That's not to say that I wouldn't have enjoyed watching a few big hitters try it.

Interesting comments in here, I agree that changes to 2, 6, and 9 greens would have really silenced critics as those greens are rather flat.  

Moving the tee further back on 12 is laughable.  I was always in favor of a new tee to the right of the 11th green way off where the tall grass meadow stands. I guess that will porta-potties.  That could have been an interesting tee location.

Matt - what other changes are we talking about other than mowing lines?  It seems a bit too late to try something radical, but I guess ANGC has shown us that anything is possible in a short time period.

Could it be possible that the PGA is the most strategic US major? Think about that one.

[Matt_Ward]

Jamie:

Hard to say how these changes will affect the Black.

The present desire by the sponsoring organizations (i.e. ANGC, USGA, R&A) is add length -- plenty of it. It's painfully apparent that they view shortness as being akin to obsolescence. I don't.

The Black clearly needs to play ultra "firm and fast" to really have any bite. As I said earlier it will be interesting to see how the course is set-up for the MGA Open which is being contested this week. For example, I don't know if the MGA will play the 7th as a long par-4 as it will for the Open.

I would have liked to see more imagination in preparing the Black. For example, instead of pushing the 2nd tee back why not angle the tee more to the left and present a more dramatic dog-leg left. Since a major storm several years ago the left side is much thinner and players have taken shots that were previously blocked and fired away with impunity.

Another example is the 1st. Will the USGA keep the tee on the extreme right of the box to prevent players from having a favorable angle to clear the newly planted ash trees at the corner of the dog-leg?

You know as well as I do that if the tees are middle to left on the box and the prevailing southwest wind is blowing downwind the long players will have no problem clearing the corner and having nothing more than flip wedges into the hole.

Tour players will not hit drivers if they can still accomplish their task in playing a hole. The goal for the Bethpage Open is to force players to think extra hard about abandoning the need to hit full out. That's why I oppose the rough cut in the 6th fairway at the bottom of the hill. The majority of players will opt to stay on the top side, but why not give the player seeking to jump start a round the opportunity to bust one and fly the hill to set up a short wedge???

I sadly believe Bethpage will be deemed by many people as just a long Tillie design devoid of character. Having one or two short par-4's under 400 yards could have been achieved. Part of that problem rests with the USGA and the State of New Yoak in deciding to leave the greens (flat as pancakes on 2/3's of the holes) as they are.
The claim that the greens can be induced to a speed of 13 on the Stimp is a nice talking point, but once players of world class skill get dialed in on flat greens you will see birdies.

Holes like #2 and #9 did not need to be lengthened but changed with a contoured greens that could catch many players napping and hit them with a very real three-putt situation.

Again, watch the scores with this week's MGA Open. Tee to green the Black does scare the rank amateur and journeyman pro, but the front nine is clearly vulnerable in my mind to being torched. When you have mild greens the only way to keep players honest is to have a site that features a good bit of wind. The BO has that possibility but the Black is not like it's brethern on the Island SH.

The back nine has muscle and will not yield low scores gently. If the Black had WF / West greens then you would see plenty of professional on their knees screaming for mercy.

We shall see ...

[Frank_Pasquale]

The 7th is playing as a "484 yard" par 4 for the Met Open.  However, what I don't understand is that the ladies tee is listed at 509, and the whites usually play at the back end of that front tee, approx 520.  How they are coming up with 484, when there is no teeing area in front of the ladies tee, I have no idea.

In spite of the USGA's stance on protecting par, does anyone agree with me that the 7th would be more exciting as a 576 par 5, with much more risk/reward off the tee?

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