[Ran Morrissett]

Ten of its features include:

1. sandy based
2. great short par four with a wonderful false front
3. Multiple routes/strategic options for its par fives
4. blind shots don't worry the architect
5. the golfer can use the bold green contouring to work the ball closer to many hole locations
6. length is secondary to fun
7. the course is on a contiguous block of property and has no houses
8. there are numerous interesting angles of play
9. wide fairways keep the pace of play moving along nicely at this public access course
10. lots of sandy scrub area so that maintenance costs remain in-check

PS The course might not be in the U.S.

[Michael Moore]

Pacific Dunes?

[THuckaby2]

I was gonna say Pacific Dunes also, but it most definitely fails point 9 (pace of play is very slow), and point 10 is dubious also - I think maintenance might cost MORE than usual there as they have to continually truck more sand in to replace that blown or eroded out of the bunkers...

I have no better guess though!

TH

[Hart_Huffines]

Go ahead and laugh but what about Tobacco Road?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Actually, Hart, Tobacco Road does fit all of the descriptions, though I don't know what the everyday pace of play is.  The short par 4 with the false front would be #16.

[RJ_Daley]

Hart and Scott, I'm not laughing, definitely Tobacco Rd fits all of the criteria.  Although, the false front on #5 is not for the faint hearted either.

Wild Horse fits most of the criteria, but the false fronts aren't necessarily as dramatic of a drop off as TRs 5 and 16.

[JamieS]

How about...The Old Course. It would seem to fit all criteria above, except for... name the "modern " course.

If the title is not a trick question, then I would agree with the above and say that Tobacco Road sure fits.

[Paul_Daley]

A toughie Ran! However, three-quarters of your teasing clues point towards The Dunes Golf Links, Rye, Victoria. Wherever it is,
I want to join.

[John_McMillan]

Sounds like High Pointe, with the possible exception of the short par-4.  There are some par-4's at High Pointe which might fit that description, but I'm not sure which I would propose first.  

The other points on the list are dead on.

[Aaron]

My guess goes to Tobacco as well. Great sandy base there...and I belive Strantz claims it costs little in maintanence due to lack of groomed turf.

Number 5 and 16 are both great false fronts, and at around 6,600, it is not long by any means. The par fives are on point nad there are a good share of blind shots.

Hell, I just convinced myself...$200 on Tobacco Road!

[Ran Morrissett]

What a great thread - the minimalist Doak and Strantz battling it out with the victor being ............ Tobacco Road!

My original post was wrong - Tobacco Road has TWO great short par fours with false fronts - the 5th and the 16th (I was just thinking of the 5th when I made the post).

I played Tobacco Road for the first time in 20 months the other day and it was even better than I remembered, in part because the entire 15th green is know being used again as Strantz knocked down the ridge that obscured the left 3/5 of it. Furthermore, there is talk about lowering the ridge in front of the 13th green by a few feet, and also of reducing the effect of the love grass in a few select spots.

Once that is done, the ONLY other thing I can think of would be to scrub the 17th hole (the golfer's fourth wedge shot in five holes) in favor of a long, uphill par three from the 12th green towards the 13th tee. The benefit would be two fold: 1) it would introduce a long iron shot into the variety of approach shots and 2) it would get rid of the 17th green (which is one too many super wide but shallow greens on a course for my tastes though you would keep the 17th hole as a 19th hole, and bring it in and out of play as needed).

Regardless, it is definitely my favorite Strantz course, and we will be updating the course profile with numerous photos this fall. For those who haven't seen it, you're in for a real treat.

Cheers,

[Aaron]

Could not agree more Ran. I have only played there twice, but enjoyed it very much.

The changes sound good to me, along with your idea. I think that is what TR lacks, a nice long par 3...uphill would be even better. I found 17 to be a little uninteresting in that most of the par 3's I played (except have been a wedge to a thin, long green.

A question for you Ran, who do you go about playing 16? I cannot remember if trees on the left hindered tee shots at the green. Maybe bringing that tree line back would benefit the more heroic tee shot?

Aaron

[Hart_Huffines]

Ran,

What about Caledonia?

[Ran Morrissett]

Hart,

Caledonia gets better and better in many folks' minds the more Strantz builds such courses as Tot Hill Farms. People almost seem to give its traditional architecture extra brownie points because they appreciate how restrained it is relative to his later works.

Regardless, Tobacco Road is both a) on a much bigger piece of property and b) on a much more unique piece of property.
Strantz was thus freed up/allowed to go crazy with all his playing angles/options, which I really appreciate, especially on a public access course.

It would be interesting to do a hole for hole match play of those two courses....

Cheers,

[BillV]

Tobacco Road is what Running Deer would like to be.  (See thread last week).

Tobacco Road is loads  of fun.  I got to play it once as the first twosome off.  Primo.

[Jeff_McDowell]

Ran,

I disagree with your ascertion that the sandy scrub areas keep maintenance costs in-check. I went to a conference that included at day at Tobacco Road, and the superintendent said they spend much more time maintaining the scrub areas than the turf.

I'll email you a great photo of the second shot at the eleventh hole.

[Hart_Huffines]

Ran,

Looking forward to playing The Road again soon but one thing sticks out in my mind - the 18th hole - would you call it a good finishing hole?

I grew up playing blind shots but to me there is one too many on the 18th.  Perhaps I am wrong given the angles of play you mentioned, but it seems too severe not to see the green, especially with the multiple layers.  Please enlighten me.

[John Morrissett]

Ran--

I'm glad you're coming around on Tobacco Road.

I hate to say it, but your idea of plugging in a long one-shotter between the 12th and 13th and scrubbing the 17th is a good one.  It is pretty silly how the 18th tee is right next to the 16th green.  Plus, on paper the 6th and 17th are a bit too similar (very, very wide shallow greens).

I like the ridge in front of the 13th green.  My only problem with that hole is that I wish there were a better place to drive the ball and that there was a better prospect of going for the green from 200+ yards.  My last round there, I happened to hit a good drive in the right corner of the fairway some 210 from the green.  However, the ball was below my feet several inches and the trees on the left forced me play a hook (not a draw).  It was annoying (and maybe that is the point) to have to lay up from 210 in the fairway.

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