[Ran Morrissett]

Geoffrey Childs and I had a delightful round here in August as it is an easy walking, uncluttered course that becomes tons of fun to play because the ground game is alive and well.

I wish the owner of Beechtree would also buy High Pointe and let Green Keeper Russ Davis  get that design back into playing how the architect intended!

Beechtree should host the USGA Men's Publinx Championship - with its numerous fallaway greens, the ace players would have their hands full trying to work the ball close, given the firm greens.

Cheers,

[Ted_Sturges]

I played Beechtree 3 years ago and found it to be extremely fun to play.  The pictures show how much more visually appealing the course has become since the native grasses have matured.  I think this is one of the funnest courses (along with Apache Stronghold) to play of the Renaissance courses I've been fortunate enough to play.  It was playing firm and fast 3 years ago, and it sounds like it has only gotten better.  Would the owner of Beechtree please buy High Pointe?  Wouldn't that be great.

Also, I've said it before and I want to reiterate my belief that I'd rather play a round at Beechtree over Stonewall.  If we use Ran's criteria of "where would you rather play", I will choose Beechtree over Stonewall.  Very fun course to play.

TS

[Ran Morrissett]

Ted, As you know, I still haven't made it to Stonewall but that is a very interesting call picking Beechtree over Stonewall. What is it about Beechtree's design that you like over Stonewall?  

I don't know about Stonewall in particular but few private courses enjoy as firm and uniform playing surfaces as Beechtree.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm not sure if I'd go quite as far as Ted in picking Beechtree over Stonewall, but both courses share wonderful firm and fast conditions that really make the designs shine.

Living in the region, it's been interesting to watch all the regular press hope on the Bulle Rock bandwagon (seen again very recently with the disappointing Pine Hill), while much more enjoyment, architecture, originality, and plain fun can be found just five miles down the street at Beechtree.

I can recall the first time I played Beechtree.  I found myself involuntarily smiling as I reached a number of tees and surveyed what was ahead.  It was like a game of chess with Mr. Doak.

[Ran Morrissett]

Mike, Any idea what Bulle Rock cost to build? How much is a round there? Something tells me in these tough times especially that the economics of Beechtree would look pretty damn sexy in comparison.

[Craig_Rokke]

Ran-
The owner put his guess at close to $18 million, including clubhouse. Green fees
run in the $125-145 range I believe.

[John_McMillan]

Ran,

I played Beechtree several times when I lived in DC, and had the opportunity to walk the course with Tom Doak when he was putting in the new fairway bunker at 18.  

I found your analysis pretty accurate for the course, which is one of my favorites.  As a little inside information, the course doesn't play "exactly" as Tom designed it.  The bunkers, especially those without native grass fringes, were designed to have sand flashed further up the faces.  They are maintained with more grass on the faces, as a decision to keep the maintenance costs down.  The bunkers on the pics of holes like 8, 14 or 17 are "supposed" to have sand another 6 to 12 inches up their faces.  

One feature of the course I enjoyed was their fore-caddy system - sending one caddy out per foursome who among other duties hung around the landing areas to help find some of the drives and approach shots.  Though I didn't play during peak times, I imagine that this would have a significant effect on pace of play.  Does Beechtree still use this system?

[Mike_Cirba]

Ran,

Craig's number is probably accurate, and the amount of dirt moved by Dye is evident throughout.  It's sort of ironic that a much cheaper to build course down the road, exhibiting fun, lay of the land characteristics, is able to compete from an architectural purists point of view.

Still and all, if I recall something Tom Doak said here a few months back, it seems that all of the press and hype given Bulle Rock has had a substantial impact at the box office.

However, I believe your point is the salient one, and not wanting to claim any presient qualities, about two years ago when I wrote a review of the two courses on another website, I pointed out that the high-dollar CCFAD's like Bulle Rock had best consider that the flush economy wasn't going to last forever.  I also pointed out that I had hoped the trend was more towards courses like Beechtree in the long run.  

Of course, at the time, Beechtree cost about $60 to play.  I'm not sure what it is these days, but it's probably higher than the market might bear.

[Mike_Cirba]

Oops..I just re-read what I posted and I meant to say that I'm sure Craig's number is accurate.  I certainly didn't mean to cast any doubt on his numbers.  

One other point...

Bulle Rock is built on a GREAT site.  It was therefore a huge disappointment to me to see how Dye still felt it necessary to move so much dirt, particularly after playing Beechtree the week before.

[Mike_Cirba]

And one other thing about your review while I'm on a roll here...  

On the picture of Geoffrey playing from the fairway bunker on five, there is an extremely ugly row of planted trees above him on the horizon.  We saw much the same thing yesterday at the Architects Club, much to our chagrin.

Ran...did you get the sense that this type of tree planting is going on course-wide?  What a way to ruin the open vistas!  

[Ran Morrissett]

Mike, Good news on the tree front - those are the only new ones that I recall and they were planted around the perimeter of the driving range out of liability concerns.

[Ben C. Dewar]

Great review,
I actually read it tonight before seeing this post and wondered how I had missed it.  I am hoping to get down there in the spring.  Perhaps I will do that on my way to N.C.

[Ted_Sturges]

Ran,

Why would I rather play at Beechtree than Stonewall?

1.  I've been to Stonewall twice and it was not close to being firm either time.  One of the posters below said it was firm, so hopefully that has changed.  Stonewall would be much more fun to play if it was firm, but I've never seen it that way.

2.  The abundance of native grass and the smaller green complexes make Stonewall significantly more difficult than Beechtree.  So part of my preference for Beechtree lies in the fact that Stonewall always beats me up.  I'd rather spend more time thinking about my next golf shot than in looking for my ball.

3. I'm probably wrong on this, but it seemed like the fairways were much narrower at Stonewall.  I'd guess that they are actually closer to the same width, and that the lurking native grasses give the golfer the feeling that the fairways are not as wide.

4.  Stonewall has a couple of holes I don't care for (the 8th, and the 15th), while there wasn't a single hole I didn't enjoy at Beechtree.

5.  I like your measuring stick of "where would you rather play" to assist us in the assessment of a golf course.  Simply put, I'd rather spend a day at Beechtree than at Stonewall.

TS

[Mike_Cirba]

Ted,

I've only played Stonewall once two summers ago, and it was absolutely screaming fast.  The sort of course where everything looks "shiny", and a number of holes absolutely required you to play a running shot, oftimes utilizing the sideslopes to keep the ball on the putting surfaces.

Perhaps Tom Paul can comment as to the general maintenance conditions he's observed at Stonewall more recently.

[Ted_Sturges]

Mike,

That is good to hear.  This is not a description of the Stonewall I played twice over a three year period.  I can remember plugging my tee shots on #4, and #10, and that the course was not close to the "shiny firmness" you describe.  I need to go back.  (Ran, add this to our "to do" list).

TS

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