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Tim_Weiman

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Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« on: October 24, 2001, 06:38:00 AM »
On another thread I asked if money and technology undermined golf architecture.

Naturally, opinions varied.

There does, however, seem to be a school of thought suggesting modern architects are disadvantaged (relative to earlier periods in history) due to environmental restrictions.

So it got me to wonder whether it was fair to suggest environmentalists really undermine what Dick Daley calls "creaftsmanship".  In asking this question, one should probably first define the elements of "craftsmanship".  A couple come to mind:

1) Mental labor to minimize earth moving

2) Green complex construction to challenge player's short game and reward strategic tee shot placement

3) Fairway bunker placement and construction to create interesting shot selections and aesthetic appeal

4) Overall design to minimize excessive maintenance expenses

5) Subtle fairway shaping to encourage shotmaking

In short, I'm finding it hard to understand how environmental restrictions undermine the things we cherish about classic era architecture.

I do understand how environmental restrictions might prevent a project from going forward at all.  I do understand how restrictions might deem certain parts of a property off limits.  But, it does seem that overall, enviromental restrictions may be blamed for too many things.

As Tom Paul has said, I have no background whatsoever in golf course construction.  So maybe I'm way off base.

Nonetheless, I ask if it is really fair to suggest environmental restrictions undermine the "craftsmanship" necesary to build special courses?????

Tim Weiman

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2001, 07:38:00 AM »
At the cga outing at Inniscrone Gil Hanse described the "environmental process", dealing with a local authority that had no rules in place.  I think Inniscrone succeeds on your craftsmanship points, but did encounter some enviromeddling that hurts a few holes and makes them controversial in the context of a really fine course.  I must add that Gil did not want to be perceived as making excuses for anything on the course.  It is what it is, a fine,fun, "modern" course.

Ed_Baker

Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »
Another GCA.com euphemism, "enviromeddling"
Perfect Corey, I love it, and will give you full screen credits when I use the term. We have a meeting with the "powers that be " over a drainage project next week,thanks!

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2001, 03:23:00 PM »
Now everyone know's who got the brains in our family.

jglenn

Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2001, 04:29:00 PM »
Tim,

I firmly believe that environmental restrictions limit, often quite severely, design and construction opportunities of golf courses.  In fact, limiting and / or controlling developments is the raison d’être of these restrictions.

However, I do not buy the reasoning – some might say excuse – that these restrictions impede the designer’s vision, creativity or “craftsmanship” (or “crafts-person-ship”   ).
In my mind, “craftsmanship” is basically the ability to best make do with what you have.  In fact, I often think that restriction might make us more creative, by pushing us harder to find solutions to seemingly impossible solutions.  Much like Golden Age architects were restricted by technology, we today are restricted by regulations.

To judge a golf course, you judge the final product.  That’s easy, and it is a fair thing to do.  For most, that’s all that counts.

But if you want to judge an architect’s craftsmanship, there’s an awful lot more out there than meets the eye.  Most golfers don’t understand the craftsmanship, and thus incorrectly equate the final product with the architect’s ability.


TEPaul

Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2001, 05:50:00 PM »
I should think more about this very good question but I would say that environmental restrictions and such can undermine much about golf architecture today but I'm not so sure that I would say "craftsmanship" would be the most important and impacted one. Maybe I'm missing what is meant by "craftsmanship".

Environmental restrictions or other kinds of restrictions (good example is what a local supervisor did to Gil Hanse's #8 Inniscrone for no particularly good reason) can be harmful to otherwise good holes or hole  concepts or very much impact otherwise good routings! Things of that nature can be very affected by environmental restrictions and other modern day restrictions. If that's what's meant by "craftsmanship" then, yes, they can undermine craftsmanship.

A good example, already mentioned, would be Inniscrone. As far as I can see every environmental restriction or other restriction that is on or near enough to a hole at Inniscrone has had an affect on that hole and never for the better. These things tied Gil Hanse's hands to a large degree although there may be a few things that can be done about some of them to make the holes not so negatively affected and Gil is certainly aware what those things are. Some of the problems and restrictions have changed somewhat and the opportunity may be there to make things somewhat better.


Tim_Weiman

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Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2001, 07:04:00 PM »
Tom Paul:

When I first started thinking about this question, I had the same problem: what is craftsmanship?

So, I took a stab at defining it and offered some things that I felt were part of it above.

My hunch is that actual industry experience is mixed.  Surely, as Jeremy Glenn points out, environmental restrictions prevent potential projects from happening and also limit specific options on sites that are approved for development.

But, in other respects, I have my doubts about whether environmental restrictions are really the culprit.  For example, take the construction of #3 at Sand Ridge, a 575 yard par five.

To my knowledge environmental restrictions had almost nothing to do with the design of this hole.  Architecturally, my criticism of the design would fit one of the criteria for "craftsmanship", specifically "bunker bunker placement.....to create interesting shot selections".  In this case, the placement of bunkers just does not, in my opinion, create interesting choices for people playing their second shots.

Corey Miller describes Gil Hanse as "not wanting to make any excuses.  Good for him.

I am not suggesting environmental restrictions don't have a very real impact, but I would also be careful not to use this factor to justify every shortcoming in the overall design.

Tim Weiman

TEPaul

Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2001, 07:29:00 PM »
Tim:

I suppose then that every hole or design situation should be looked at separately to see if and how environmental restrictions affect the hole. I can think of plenty of examples where environmental restrictions do negatively affect the hole and I'm sure you'd agree.

But in your example of the par 5 at Sand Ridge you said, 'to my knowledge environmental restrictions had almost no impact on the design of this hole'. I suppose you mean there weren't any environmental restrictions on or around the hole to have any impact on it or whatever restrictions there were around the hole just didn't impact it design-wise. And if that's true then whatever design problems the hole had would not be undermined at all by environmental restrictions--the hole was undermined design-wise solely by poor craftsmanship for some other reason entirely.


Jeff_Brauer

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Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2001, 11:41:00 PM »
Tim,

My experience has been that enviromeddling affects the routing more than anything.  The craftsmanship you define, including green complex shaping, fairway shaping and bunker placement, et al, is affected to a much lesser degree.  Strategy is usually affected by more forced wetland carries, or narrower fairway corridors to save trees. Occaisionally, long strip bunkers are requrired to keep turf ( and the chemicals presumed necessary to maintain it) from being adjacent to waterways or sensitive areas. Sometimes, fairways have to be graded to drain away from water bodies, when of course, draining them to the water would be more natural, and might provide a better "backstop" for instance on a cape type hole.  For the most part, however, I can't think of a hole where my bunker placement was affected, or at least, where it couldn't be worked into some reasonable environmental shceme.

The net result, is depending on the routing compromises for the environment, you might see some real stinker holes on an otherwise fine course, or some longer walks between holes to fit holes around the "off limits" areas, both of which would probably detract from your opinion of the course. (See the post on my Giants Ridge course a few weeks ago - essential point, "nice course, why the walks?")

Once that routing is set, the GCA is usually free to implement whatever he/she sees fit, and craftsmanship, at least in how you and I define it, shouldn't be affected, in general.  Of course, if an owner with a fixed budget overspends to get an environmental permit, then the budget available to create fine features may be diminished.  In fact, when courses get spread out, things like cart path and irrigation mains and sprinklers usually expand in quantity, further eroding the budget.  Sometimes, this subtle increase over some projected budget creeps up on you. Another factor is the fixed budget versus the two year delay, without a corresponding inflation increase in the budget!

The typical result is greens consistently at or near the practical minimum size, when perhaps a really big honker here and there would stand out a bit, and the same with bunkers, where perhaps a few more well placed hazards would complete the aesthetic or strategic picture.  Of course, in my case, "discretionary" earthmoving (that not required to raise an area for drainage, or cut through a hill for vision for example) goes down, which I gather most here would applaud!  Some of us are minimalists by choice, others by our choice of owners!

Of course, I believe that Ross, et. al. probably had bigger budget constraints than we do, as they were generally working for a small group of men who each put up $1000 or so of real, not bank financed, money. I also believe, as many of you do here, that a lower budget certainly makes for a more creative architect!  There is a certain mentality of scraping for every dollar that many architects have lost in the boom times. Believe me, I always consider it a privelege, and not a right to have nearly all the money I need! And I feel a responsibility to spend the owner's money wisely, not necessarily for ego items like waterfalls, but usually for more sod, drainage, or irrigation that will help them get the course open and maintain better when they do.

The truth of the matter is that the basics of a course - including USGA greens, more grading for draingage, flood control, and water quality control, etc. combined with rising standards of irrigation, cart paths, etc. AND the rising costs of permits, cubhouses, maintenance equipment, etc. make the budget for  artistic or strategic elements correspondingly smaller than may have been so in the Golden Age.  This usually spawns two reactions - the one described above where design sometimes becomes secondary, or a reaction similar to "Well, we're so far in debt, we may have a better chance to make it by spending MORE money on "fru-fru" items to be really spectacular."  Neither reaction seems quite as "pure" as spending just enough money to make it right!

Jeff

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2001, 01:18:00 AM »
Jeff,
Interesting viewpoint. I haven't noticed posts from you before, are you new to the site? Where are you located and what courses have you been involved with?
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2001, 01:47:00 AM »
No doubt enviro-restrictions hamper routing. No one stood over Ross or Tillinghast and told them they had to avoid a wetlands. They just drained or filled it. No wonder their routings were so good.

But, two points that haven't been raised thus far . . .

1) Generally, enviro-rules are good for preserving valuable wetlands and sensitive areas. As any architect can tell you, the biggest problem with such rules is NOT that they exist but that they shift mid-stream, depending upon which subgroup of the agency you're negotiating with. Moreover, local, state and federal officials don't agree. In trying to permit our town's municipal course in Bloomfield, Conn., we found (i.e. find)that each level of government has different ways to measure and evaluate a wetland. With the state, you also end up dealing not with one DEP but with nine different sub-departments of the agency (fisheries, wildlife, water quality, wetlands), only seven of them in attendance at any one meeting. So the problem is that the rules shift during the planning process. Maddening.

2) One area where wetlands rules have been a godsend to architects has been in real estate. 1960s and 1970s projects relegated housing to the uplands areas and forced golf down to boggy lowlands areas that were poorly draining. One unacknowledged advantage of wetlands provisions was to force developers to set aside uplands areas for golf, so the quality and drainage of golf holes could improve dramatically.


Slag_Bandoon

Do environmental restrictions undermine "craftsmanship"?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »
I'd be careful using that term 'enviromeddling' as it may get a snicker but it will also divide groups into sides of 'rightness' and subliminal power posturing.  Rush Limbaugh used terms that got laughter but alienated and festered distrust in him by those snided.  (eg. FemiNazis, Treehuggers, etc.)

What let Bandon/Pacific Dunes be built in such an environmentally touchy zone was the fact that they worked together very closely. They weren't on sides doing battle.  (I have been told this by locals.  Perhaps in Doak's upcoming book there will be some mention of this - and its truth(?))

I have played some courses that were severely restricted by env. issues that would have been better left alone.  Excessive forced carries, unretrievable balls, target layout, cart required hole-to-tee distances, precious but obnoxious trees left by some compromise, and a compartmentalized feel. It just reeks of 'design struggle' and that translates into a poor connection with the playing fields.


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