Hoch's lie in the bunker

[Rick Shefchik]

I know many regulars here are hard-line about bunkers being hazards, rather than manicured ashtrays. How did you feel when you saw Hoch's ball land in a footprint?

I must confess, it didn't bother me at all. I've played out of so many footprints in my golfing life that my gut reaction was, "Okay, Scott, let's see if you have any idea how to handle this?"

After getting a closer look at the lie, however, it became clear to me that it wasn't going to be hard to hit. Rather than settling into the bottom of the print, it was perched on a ridge made by the heel of the shoe. Hoch had no trouble getting his club on the back of the ball, which, in my opinion, was the reason he didn't complain. He did hit a lousy drive, after all.

It griped me, though, to hear Miller (who I generally like) talking about the horrible break Hoch got. I'm not advocating letting people tromp through the bunkers at PGA Tour events, but I do think it's reasonable to expect that the best players in the world be able to deal with a shot I have to face once every couple of rounds.

[ForkaB]

Rick

I didn't see the "incident", but I can imagine it. Let me go against the grain (moi!) by saying:

1.  Bunkers should be maintained in a "pristine" state, in both casual and competitive rounds.  To do otherwise gives an unwarranted advantage to the person who, having been there previously, fails to return it to the state it was when he (or she) found it, contrary to the etiquette and equity fundamentals of the Rules.

2.  Bunkers should not rely upon uneven surfaces or differing thicknesses for their difficulty.  Slopes and angles are sufficient for a properly sited, contructed and maintained bunker.

3.  Taking the "bunkers should be gnarly and unraked" theory to its logical conclusion, we would have unplayable pits at 240 or so at every tour venue, and you would be seeing 4-iron/3-iron to long par 4's.  Is that what we want when we say bring the long iron back into play?

[Kevin_Reilly]

Rick, if I were playing a sudden death playoff for $360,000, I would hope that my errant tee shot wouldn't end up in a footprint made by some kid who walked through the bunker.  But if it did, I'd characterize it as a bad break without hesitation.  

For the money involved (plus future exemptions etc etc) I think it qualifies as a bad break.

[Rick Shefchik]

Fair responses. Then how about Miller's suggestion that the PGA Tour send a couple of guys down the course with rakes to make sure there are no bunker footprints on playoff holes, since it's likely that fans might have walked through bunkers on holes they expected would not be played again?

[Steve Curry]

Maybe we should make it worth $36 or have all errant shots end up in drop areas?  I don't advocate trampled bunkers but am sick of pathetic complaints of unfair breaks.  Play the game as you find it.  Miller is the archetype of a whinny golfer.
 

Regards,
Steve

[Mike_Cirba]

Yes, let's send an army of rakers out there to massage the sand continually throughout the day at tour events.

Perhaps they should have some large blowers ready as well, in case the winds make the sand uneven.  Theoretically, these blowers can be adjusted to the exact same MPH as the prevailing wind, only from the complete opposite direction which would freeze the sand particles in place.

Of course, pesky raindrops present another problem, and hail as well would tend to create the potential for less than perfect bunker lies.

To counter such difficulties, I'd propose two things;

In place of sand, I think that finely manicured turf could be dyed a white sandy color (food coloring, of course) in the shape of bunkers.  It would look good from the blimp while still providing the color contrast and excellent, fair playability that the tour insists is every player's birthright.

Also, the blimp could be eliminated and better aerial shots through the use of domed courses.  All of the elements could be controlled, and we'd never have to worry about that pesky sand again.

[ForkaB]

Mike

Please E-mail me privately.  That was exactly what I was thinking of!  With my ability to influence people and your engineering expertise I think we can profit from this idea.  After we make our gazillions, we can retire to Painswick where some day Ole' Blind Jimmy will be out walking his pet ferrets and find us in rigor mortis at the bottom of some unraked bunker......

[scott_wood]

mike, (and Rich): i think the long winter is REALLY getting to you!

[Matt_Cohn]

If all the bunkers were trampled, or at least if Hoch new that bunker was partly trampled, OK, that's fair. But on the tee you make a calculation of just how bad a bunker would be...and if there was even a small possibility Hoch thought the ball would be in a terrible lie if he hit it into a bunker, he would have assessed the risk/reward differently.

That's what it comes down to...risk/reward only works well if you have a good idea of what the risks and rewards are. Otherwise it's not thinking man's golf, because it's just a guess.

And that's the problem with the lie in the bunker...not that it's bad, but that makes golf less of a thinking game, because you can't assess risk/reward as well when both are variable.

That's the argument for consistent, though not necessarily good, conditions in bunkers.

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt;

Should a bunker be a hazard or should we just define it as "though the green"?  

How's this for a risk/reward determination?  The bunker is supposed to be a place you don't want to be...how about consciously avoiding it?

Rich;

I'll write the personal email as soon as I finish up work here on my "Faux Sand Particulate Blaster", complete with push-button domed expansion protector.  I gotta get that patent underway quickly, or Mr. Finchem is going to withdraw funding.  

Scott;

No doubt!

[David Wigler]

Matt,

He hit it in the bunker because he hit a bad shot!

One of the funniest moments I remeber in golf was standing on the 18th tee at my home CC during men's league.  One of my opponents hit as bad a snap hook as I have ever seen.  It went over 60 yards offline, hit the pro shop and bounced down the path into our cart barn.  He started to walk towards the spot where the ball crossed into the barn to take a drop.  My partner told him that last week, they had changed the marking from Red to White and he now had to reload from the tee (Post not intended to debate in-course OB and Doak already called Polo Fields 18th hole the worst in the world).  The guy looked at his partner, my partner and me and said in his most pissed off voice, "Well, if I had know it was now OB, I would not have hit it there."  After even his own partner started rolling on the ground laughing, he had to smile.

[JohnV]

It is standard practice on most tours and Associations to have someone go out and check the bunkers on the playoff holes before it begins.  Either the PGA Tour doesn't do that, forgot to do it, did it and missed the bunker or did it and someone stepped in there afterwards.  It is preferable that  a playoff isn't decided by a maintanence issue.  Fortunately, Hoch didn't complain, went in there and hit a good shot and it didn't have any affect.  I think the tour official told him about it before he got there as you could see him walking up to Hoch as he walked up there.

By the way, I've heard that players at the LPGA Tour School do a very poor job of raking bunkers because there is so much at stake and they figure that they won't be back in there that day.  Sad that some people would act that way and even sadder that a player should be penalized by someone else's discourtesy.

[ForkaB]

Scott

I actually played 18 today.  You wouldn't want to see how goofy I might get if I were cooped up all day like Cirba......

[Mike_Cirba]

Rich;

The last time I played was the middle of November.  

If disorientation hasn't completely kicked in, it's now the middle of March.

In my entire adult life, this is the longest I've gone without playing.  

My posts are also limited, because I don't want to expose all my good friends here to my currently surly nature.  

All this pain should end at Pasatiempo this coming Saturday, however.  Despite a forecast of some serious rain, I'm totally jazzed to get back on course.  Nothing short of hurricane weather will keep me from playing and getting out of this funk.  

[THuckaby2]

All this pain should end at Pasatiempo this coming Saturday, however.  Despite a forecast of some serious rain, I'm totally jazzed to get back on course.  Nothing short of hurricane weather will keep me from playing and getting out of this funk.  

Think good thoughts, Mike.  We've had nothing but sun for all except a few days since New Year's and dammit if you guys were here either of the last two weekends you'd have been playing in shorts.  God simply cannot hate us that much to bring rain THIS WEEKEND... it would be beyond rotten luck.

In any case, good to hear there will be diehards come Saturday, as I expected.  I'll be with you.  I'm just hoping still we won't have anything to "survive"....

TH

[JohnV]

Mike, I'm also going through the longest drought of my life.  Early November was my last round.  The current forecast for Pasatiempo is "A Few Showers" on weather.com, so perhaps things are looking up.