Florida's 3rd Best Course ?

[Matt_Ward]

Pete B:

The things that make Copperhead unique for me are quite simple:

1). The land the course occupies. It has plenty of hills and movement -- you really don't believe you ARE in Florida.

2). The combination of holes and routing are also well done.

3). You need to "work the ball" in a number of different situations throughout the round. It's not just the same formulistic hole-after-hole routine you often encounter when playing many Florida golf courses. You also are not straight-jacketed with the profusion of houses and mindless H20 which from many other Florida golfcourses is there for the "eye" but not for the golf.

Let me also state that the #3 nine at Copperhead is also good but just not as consistently good as #1 and #2. I also have to state that attaining the 3rd position in the Sunshine State is no easy matter and I just mentioned Copperhead because it somehow gets lost in the sauce with all the new courses that have sprouted in Florida within the last few years.

[brad_miller]

What and where is Calusa Pines?

[Pete Buczkowski]

Matt:

Thanks for the assessment of the Copperhead course.  It sounds like a course seeking out when in the area.  Your description sounds like a central NC course; I'll miss those when I move to Orlando.

I am still curious of your assessment of WWPB vs. Ocean Hammock.  I gave mine in post #21 but know that you are quite fond of OH and would like to hear your opinion.

Brad:

Calusa Pines is a relatively new Hurdzan/Frey (private) course in Naples.  I have not played it but heard some good things from a friend (though I don't know if I value his opinion  ).

Pete

[Hunt]

Maybe it does not belong on this thread but for those that have played lots of golf in the state:

How does Loblolly compare to other top courses? If you break out into Classical and Modern rankings-where does it fall?

[Matt_Ward]

Pete B:

Good luck with you move from NC to Orlando!

The differences between World Woods / Pine Barrens and Ocean Hammock is very tough because they are both first rate designs IMHO. If I had to say which is better I would honestly rate them a statistical dead heat.

WW / PB is well done by TF and clearly it isn't as "made up" as many TF designs usually are. The land is quite good -- albeit towards the flat side -- yet there's enough variety to keep you interested. Again, I have not played all of the recent new courses that have opened in the state to say it merits a #3 position but a top ten one is not out of the wood (no pun intended).

Ocean Hammock is simply a first rate Nicklaus design. I mean how many ocean fronting layouts are left to be created in the State? Not many.

Jack didn't create an earlier version of his "my way or highway" design mentality. You have plenty of room to handle different handicap levels and the general pacing of the holes and routing is well done. Jack provides opportunities for people to score but there are no handouts.

I really enjoyed the back nine because the front simply sets the stage for the final 9 holes. The last four are simply stellar stuff -- with the long par-4 15th heading to the ocean with a green that sits up beautifully for your approach. The cap like 16th is also neat stuff -- followed by a soild mid-length par-3 and the tough closer which is made even more special by the way the green is angled from lower right to back left -- the fall-off on the right side of the green for those who push the envelope too hard is also well done.

The best way to highlight the quality of Ocean Hammock is to compare it with nearby The Creek at Hammock Dunes by Rees Jones. At the later you get a layout with plenty of wicked forced carries over wetlands. OH doesn't do that because Nicklaus has clearly moved his design philosophy to a different style -- one I believe is much more complicated and certainly more compelling.

In closing -- I would not say OH merits the 3rd position, but I believe it has the depth to be included as a legitimate top ten contender. Since OH and WW / PB are both public at the very minimum this will allow for to play them when in the state.