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mark chalfant

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Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« on: June 30, 2005, 11:22:25 PM »
Looks like good land with some thoughtful holes. Any thoughts re routing, memorable holes, and green complexes would be appreciated  .thanks

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2005, 12:39:47 AM »
I travel from Minnesota to play the Harvester almost every spring and fall.  It is wonderful rolling land and in my view has sixteen solid to very good holes.  It generally plays pretty firm unless there has been a lot of rain.

Probably the strength of the course is its par threes and par fives.  These pictures are from its website  www.harvestergolf.com. Unfortunately, the pictures do little justice to the course.

 
Par Threes -

3rd - 150-190 to a big green with water in front and on both sides.  



The prevailing wind blows right to left and helping.  There is a spine running down the center of the green, which slopes sharply to the left side.  When the pin is left, if you bail out right, two putting is very difficult.

8th

The 8th is around 200 yards into the prevailing wind protected by a bunker front left and a green that slopes sharply to the right.  One needs to hit it straight, control trajectory and understand that a miss right is much better than left.

14th:



My favorite of the group on land that is not unique.  Prevailing wind helps from the right.  Green is divided into two sections with the rear portion lower than the front.  Plays from two different angles.

17th



Cape type green that plays from a variety of angles.  

The par fives are also very good.  The 3rd is pretty long with a nice green with a generally left to right slope that can be used to get an approach close.  The 15th is a brute that plays up to 650 yards uphill directly into the prevailing wind.  The green sits about 40 feet above the fairway and, when you cannot feel the wind that is blowing at you can be difficult to judge.  

The other two are reachable and for me more enjoyable.  The sixth plays into the prevailing wind but is significantly downhill so there is an opportunity to reach it on a relatively calm day.



If one lays up with the second, he must make the choice between the extremes of an aggressive shot leaving a short pitch or a very safe one leaving a 140-160 yard shot into a green protected by water in front and tall grass in back.

The 18th seems horseshoe in shape when you are playing:



There are a lot of options off the tee.  A drive near the water leaves a chance to reach the green.  A safer shot with a driver is left of the bunker to a fairway that is about 5 feet higher than the right side.

Regardless of the tee shot, you must make a decision with the second.  Out of the bunker or rough, the carry to the island layup area can be a challenge.  From a good lie on the right side, one can go for the green, hit a wood close to the green or a short iron to the layup area.  Within the different areas, one can made choices about aggressiveness.

   Most of the par fours are good, but none stand out to me as particularly outstanding.  In my view, the two weak holes, on the course are the fifth, which is a short par four that has an extremely wide and a strangely huge green for reasons I cannot decipher.  The hole could be vastly improved if it were turned into a driveable par four that was very tight in the area where one would hit a driver.  

The other weak hole is the fifteenth, which is about 450 yards, downhill and usually downwind.  Unfortunately, the goofy nature of the tee shot overshadows a terrific green that slopes away from a front right bunker.




The fairway runs fairly flat to within 200 yards of the green, then drops via a terrace to a 25 yard deep flat spot in driver range that ends abruptly in a creek.  As far as I can tell, whether the drive goes in the creek or stays in the fairway is entirely random.  

If the choice of driver could be made more inviting, I think this could be a terriffic hole.  
« Last Edit: July 01, 2005, 12:41:38 AM by Jason Topp »

Jeff Shelman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2005, 02:15:26 AM »
I agree with much if not all of what Jason wrote (though I didn't realize he was so web-savvy with the pics).

No. 16 is also my least favorite hole on the course. I am not a big fan of a 400-plus par 4 where hitting driver is kind of a stupid play. When I get to that elevated tee, I don't ever know what to do. It's downhill and usually downwind and that makes it harder. But a 3-wood leaves an awfully tough shot.

I guess I don't have as many problems with No. 5. One thing in its favor is that you almost never have a real good look at the green surface.

While I don't think it's a bad hole, I know several people who say the 18th doesn't fit with the rest of the golf course. I don't disagree with that. There's a bit of a target golf element to it with the island fairway that isn't there on the previous 17 holes.

Of the par 4s, I think the seventh hole is very strong because the drive goes right into a hill and you get very little roll. The second shot is almost always off of a non-flat lie and you're trying to hit it onto an elevated green. I also think the 12th is very good.

Overall, I really like the Harvester. It's a very strong, sort of macho golf course. There are very few (if any) tricks on this golf course. It's a walkable routing. The green complexes are interesting, but not stupid and it's very natural.

Is it worth a special drive from Chicago? I don't know. Is it worth the three-plus hours from Minneapolis or anywhere in Iowa. Without question.

I expect Evan to answer in four ... three ... two ....

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2005, 08:29:31 AM »
...one!

Completely agree with the above assessments of the course.  If you've ever played any of Keith's other works and enjoyed them, then you will certainly enjoy this one.

"Prairie links" is my term of choice for courses like these...plenty of roll and wind to think about, most holes offer ground game approach shot options and the green complexes are laid out to allow such attempts and the appropriate penalties for missing them (ie ticht lie chip shots, collection areas, etc.)

The talk about 18 not fitting the rest of the layout has some merit, I also agree that the courses strengths are its par 3's and 5's, and I also feel the #5 is not all that bad a hole giving you some "uncomfortable" approach shot options even though the hole is relatively short.

The course is quite walkable, has only 2 or 3 holes where a building or structure are close by giving you a feeling of truly being out in the contru somewhere.

The back nine has much more elevation change to it (than actual roll or contour) due to the hillsides it was built on, and that 16th hole is a real weird one. Even though the hole plays downhill and downwind you just cannot convince yourself to pull the right club off the tee...whatever that club might be.

Overall it is certainly worth a looksy if you are in the neighborhood...does it warrant a 3-4 hour drive from the "major" cities???...that is for you to judge but it certainly stacks up well against its bretheren of courses in the Ames and Des Moines areas in my book!

Was that fast enough Jeff?!?!?  :o 8) ;D
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2005, 09:47:27 AM »
I consider it worth a longer drive, particularly if combined with Wakonda (Langford) and Des Moines Country Club (Dye) in Des Moines.  I also have a soft spot for Waveland but because it was my childhood course, I am happily and completely biased on that course.


Eric_Dorsey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2005, 10:00:26 AM »
And...don't forget Veenker Memorial @ Iowa State - 30 min north in Ames, a classic Perry Maxwell design.   ;)

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2005, 10:15:45 AM »
Jason, Evan or Jeff -- Could you comment on the bunkering here. It looks very good and kind of "classical" if you get my drift. I especially like the looks of the two in front of the 14th.

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2005, 10:29:56 AM »
Jason, Evan or Jeff -- Could you comment on the bunkering here. It looks very good and kind of "classical" if you get my drift. I especially like the looks of the two in front of the 14th.


Well, fortunately for me I did not get to experience many of them first hand, but my recollection of them was they were fairly flat bottomed with grass walls (some fairly steep in nature) and no real flashing of the sand.

8 was a neat hole as I remember...a longish downhill par-3 with the lake as a backdrop giving you a sense that it butted right up to the back of the green, but in fact it did not.  There was a section of "no mow" in between the teeing ground and the green adding to the beautiful contrast of the hole.

On 14 I do not remember going over to check out those bunkers, but they certainly do have a rather "classical" look to them...maybe something you'd see at Lawsonia or someplace similar (albeit probably not quite as deep as at a place like that).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2005, 10:32:29 AM by Evan_Fleisher »
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Matt_Ward

Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2005, 10:36:09 AM »
I had the pleasure in playing Harvester last summer and agree with the comments already made. The layout is a strong brawny design that encourages the big play with the driver.

The day I was present the wind was whipping quite strong -- the 1st played dead down wind and some of the holes into the head wind were quite intense.

I agree the par-3's and par-5's were the central strong element of the course. You also have to give credit for such a solid piece of land -- quite rolling and varied thorughout.

One other note -- a second 18 is planned -- also by Keith Foster. From what I was told the time line for ground breaking should be very shortly.

I have played other Keith Foster courses -- Haymaker in Steamboat Springs, Coral Canyon in St. George and The Quarry in San Antonio -- neither of them has the totality of scope and richness is design that Harvester presents. Anyone in the immediate Des Moines area needs to stop by and play it if time permits.

P.S. -- I have to add that I really enjoyed the 18th -- it may not have fitted completely as the other holes -- but the juxtaposition of the water and the gambling element on the tee shot makes for a unique closer.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2005, 03:23:15 PM »
"Wooga"

I have never really formed strong opinions about the look of bunkering on any course.  My analysis is typically limited to their location, getting a feel for the sand and trying to hit shots out of them.  On those fronts, the bunkers are good.

Next time I get down there (early August), I'll take some pictures of the bunkers so you can get a better sense of what they are like.

Matt:

I have also played the Quarry in San Antonio.  This course is so far superior to that one that I had to double check to make sure it was the same architect.  I also agree about the 18th.  I've never thought of it as out of character.  The lake looks like it was there before the course, thus it uses a natural feature.  Furthermore, my group typically has a large number of creative but low money bets riding on the last hole and it is great with a bunch of bets on the line.

Others - most of the holes I depicted are water holes, which doesn't represent the course real well.  More than half the holes either have no water or water only very peripherally in play.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2005, 04:01:14 PM »
Any thoughts on the slender bunker between the end of the fairway and the water on the 6th hole?  What purpose does it serve?




Mike
« Last Edit: July 01, 2005, 04:30:36 PM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Gary_K

Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2005, 07:16:49 PM »
Mike,

I don’t like the slender bunker at the end of the 6th fairway.  I think it’s too penal for most golfers.  If a player hits their second or third shot into the bunker, the next play is a long bunker shot over water.  This shot is very difficult for most golfers.  They would be better off have the ball go in the water on the first poorly hit shot than to have it go in the water on the following shot.  It results in a ‘2 shot penalty’.  This bunker reminds of the bunker short of the water on hole #9 at Whisper Creek in Huntley, IL, hated it.  That bunker is far worse than the one on #6 at the Harvester.

Regarding the Harvester in general, the greens are very quick 10-11+ on the stimp meter.  I believe the second course is being planned for private membership.  

Favorite par 4: Wright Way - Hole #2

Gary K.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Harvester (keith foster) in Iowa
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2005, 07:19:44 PM »
Gary K,

My thoughts exactly.
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

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