How did Bill Coore develop his appreciation...

[Ran Morrissett]

...of the ground game without spending much time in the U.K.?

His designs that I have seen (SH, Kapalua and C3) require the golfer to use the area in front of the greens in order to be successful. From the 2nd green at Sand Hills to the 18th at Kapalua, the diversity of shots required is amazing.

The other greats of architecture - Macdonald, Crump, Wilson, Tillinghast, etc. -were forced to go overseas to learn in the early days of golf course development in the U.S.

In the modern era, the other architects who use the ground like Doak and Hanse have also been fortunate to spend a lot of time overseas.

However, Coore is different. By his own admission in his Feature Interview on this site, he has 'only' played St. Andrews, Prestwick, and Ballybunion in Scotland and Ireland.

Where did his sense/feel for the land come from?

Cheers,

[TEPaul]

That's a great question--a mysterious one really for a man who has admittedly never seen much of European golf.

But if I could hazard a guess, what I would say is that Bill Coore, in this particular way anyhow, is lucky not to be a solo architect! He has a partner who has an instinctual talent for architecture too and of the type your asking about--and his partner has seen plenty of golf in Europe of the type you're talking about and asking about. Not only seen it but played it as much and as well as almost any golfer alive! I believe Ben Crenshaw has those shots, those options, that creativity in his bones. He sees them, feels them and knows how to design them too.

It really doesn't take much more than a few minutes to discover how well Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw (and their "Boys") work together. Frankly, there may not be two architects in the history of the game that have had the same great symbiosis that Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw do!

[Geoff_Shackelford]

Ran,
Bill is multi-talented and has a wonderful ability to visualize, but Ran, you may not have heard, he does have a design partner named Crenshaw and a pretty talented team of regulars.   I've been lucky enought to get to listen in on a few of their on-site deliberations, and knowing the influence "the boys" have and the overall process they use to build, I think it's a team effort that leads to the interesting ground game emphasis. They all work together and spend a lot of time on site, so it's not just Bill, which might explain why he can get by on a small dosage of British Isles golf.

By the way, Barton Creek-Crenshaw has some of their neatest approaches. Probably not the "conference center golf course" that the owners there envisioned, but for the few who like that ground game stuff, it's pretty interesting.
Geoff

[ForkaB]

Is it not true that one of the most articulate proponents of the ground game on this website, a distinguished Philadlphian who shall remain nameless, has also confessed to having played virtually no links golf in the UK or Ireland?

All it takes is an inquisitive mind and a lot of imagination.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Get ready Great Britain. I just heard some news today that Dave Axland is coming to town.

(This of course means that the beer must be kept at the proper temperature--very cold. You GB'ers better turn up the cooler quick, given your pension for warm beverages.)

(Sung to the tune of New York New York)

Start spreadin' the news....
Dave Axland is comin' to around....
He wants to be a part of it, in old London town......

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Barton Creek-Crenshaw does have wonderful opportunities to use the ground. I have only walked it. Assuming the super does not keep it too wet, it will be a very enjoyable and challenging course. I am personally attracked to courses with a variety of shotmaking options as most of are. thanks for the subject Ran.

[Joel_Stewart]

This is an interesting post and in the 4 years since this post Coore has delivered again and again.   The two that I have played are Friars Head and Bandon Trails are consistent with his original masterpiece Sand Hills.  

Lastly, he has kept his team together.  

[Jonathan Cummings]

I'll venture forth that Coore would not be in the position he is in now without his association with Crenshaw.  Right, wrong or indifferent, the name recognition as a marketing tool can't be underestimated.

JC

[George Pazin]

Because Bill is a very thoughtful guy.

Jonathan -

The flip side of that is that maybe he'd be more known individually....

Would he have been chosen for Sand Hills or Friar's Head by himself?

Who knows?

More importantly, who cares!?! They build wonderful courses. I can only hope that their desire to build courses in areas of general gca renown brings them to Pittsburgh one day.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Georgie - let me say that now it doesn't matter.  Bill could work on his own and likely do fine - he now has a marquee name.  But his name was initially launched, in part, by Crenshaw.

Doubters?  Okay, let's engage an architectural savant and one of our very own.  

Tom Doak, you out there?

Answer this honestly.  If you had had a named player as a consultant/partner early in your career would obtaining jobs have been easier and your exposure accelerated?

I don't know how you can answer no.

JC

[TEPaul]

"Re:How did Bill Coore develop his appreciation......of the ground game without spending much time in the U.K.?"

This is an interesting thread from four years ago on here and an interesting question. It's probably more accurate to say a "dated" question.

Does anyone on here really think a golf architect or even a golfer has to have a familiarlty with the UK to understand or appreciate ground game golf or the interest of the ground game in golf architecture?

Bill Coore is a smart and talented guy and as incredible as it may seem to some apparently he didn't absolutely have to go to the UK to understand what the ground game is all about in golf or golf architecture! Either do plenty of other Americans, as hard as that may be for some to believe.

[Joel_Stewart]

Does anyone on here really think a golf architect or even a golfer has to have a familiarlty with the UK to understand or appreciate ground game golf or the interest of the ground game in golf architecture?

Actually, Yes.  

I suppose you could not go but it doesn't hurt.  I have always found it odd that someone like Jack Nicklaus who has played most of the courses in Scotland and Ireland still built well manicured courses like Muirfield Village for the high fade.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Joel - you may be surprised at how few courses in Ireland and Scotland JN has actually played...

JC

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran,

Bill Coore impressed me as an intelligent individual who didn't need to have architecture shoved down his throat in order to understand and appreciate it.

And, there are other courses, some not to far from where he grew up, that employ the ground game.

[TEPaul]

"Actually, Yes.  
I suppose you could not go but it doesn't hurt.  I have always found it odd that someone like Jack Nicklaus who has played most of the courses in Scotland and Ireland still built well manicured courses like Muirfield Village for the high fade."

Joel:

To say it could not hurt is surely not the same thing as saying it's completely necessary to know so one may replicate it everywhere. The manicured courses of America like a Muirfield Village that's conducive to the high fade is simply ONE style of golf architecture that makes up the fascination that is the entire spectrum of types and styles in all that golf architecture is.

Nicklaus understood European golf and golf architecture and he understood a type and style of American architecture. The one is no more wholly distinctive to Europe as the other is in America NOW---and I doubt he didn't understand that both can co-exist---even in each other's lands today.

The problem I see these days with the mentality of a GOLFCLUBATLAS.com is the website's participants tend to thing too much in either black or white---that all golf architecture should be one way---not many ways!

[George Pazin]

Additionally, Bill Coore probably learned the game well before the onslaught of the power game.

I bet Corey Pavin had a pretty complete game before he ventured overseas.

It's hard to imagine a young golfer, just learning the game now, deciding to be an architect and not being overly influenced by today's bash and throw darts game. In the future, the best architects will probably not be top players. (At least, best as defined by the courses I most enjoy!)

[Philip Gawith]

You still have to think that the premise of Ran's original post is correct.

It is slightly counter-intuitive that:

1 - in a game steeped in tradition;
2 - where that tradition favours the ground game;
3 - one of the pre-eminent architects who favours the ground game;
4 - would not have much first-hand familiarity with these traditions (as in the courses).

Of course, as TE Paul suggests, and the results of his courses confirm (not that I have had the fortune to play any )) he has hardly suffered from any lack of familiarity.

Given how easy it is to fly from the US to the UK, you might think it betrays a certain lack of curiosity. Maybe we will have to invite him along to the Buda Cup next year to fill the gap.

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