[Lou_Duran]

Huck,

Our esteemed friend, Don Tuco, can probably address this better than I can, but perhaps there a reverse Electra complex going on.  Not impugning Lynn's fine reputation, but with the recent disclosures about sex parties for high-pot athletic recruits at many of the nation's colleges, who knows?

[Dan Kelly]

BTW, why is the thing on the internet for nothin'?  The abject silliness of internet marketing never ceases to amaze.  Little wonder the fricking bubble burst.  I just don't get it.  

And I don't get why, now, they won't let you see more than a few pages. That's not enough of a sample for most people (including me) to decide if it's worth paying my money for. I'm not going to buy it just because it says "Geoff Shackelford" on the cover.

Refusing to let you browse, the way people are free to browse in any decent bookstore (where, you'll note, they can read the whole book for nothing, if they so choose -- though few do!), is no way to sell books, either.

Leaving the whole thing online would have been smart, if you ask me. The sales you'd lose to those who would read the whole thing online would be more than made up for, I'm guessing, by the sales to those who decide, at one point or another in their online reading: "You know, I really should OWN this book. I'm gonna order the damned thing."

[THuckaby2]

Dan:

You're far closer to I am, as is Geoff, as is anyone who actually has things published, so I defer to you...

It just seemed to me of a "why buy it if I can just print the whole thing for free" kinda thing.  Different from a bookstore - there I'd have to sit there for hours and read it.  Could happen, sure, but unlikely.  Here all I wouldn't get is the nice paper and Tommy's cool cover.  Sure that's a loss, but well... If I weren't a fan, a collector of his books, and have this idea that authors ought to be paid for their work, it would be pretty damn tempting just to print it off the internet and read it for free.

But maybe you're right, maybe having it on there does increase sales... I really don't know.

TH

[Lou_Duran]

You mean someone actually thought about printing it off the browse option?  How many pages is it, 200?  Unless you are using someone else's printer, at 10 cents a page it would cost $20 to print it, plus what, an hour or so.  I ordered mine for $20 including shipping.  Not only is it the right thing to do, it's much cheaper.

[THuckaby2]

Lou:

Er, uh, well... of course I personally would NEVER use someone else's printer... just like I never log on here during work time...

As I say, I bought the book and eagerly await its arrival.

TH

[NAF]

I got my book yesterday..

Great cover by Tommy!

It looks very easy to read and I'm putting it on my weekend reading list.

[Dan Kelly]

Dan, that's a good point, and I recognize the browsing analogy at the bricks and mortar store, but here's why it's different:

your computer is in your den (or wherever).  You have permanent whenever-you-feel-like-it access to it.  If it's online means it's ALWAYS available.  In fact, it is every bit as available to you as the book at home on your shelf that you acually had to BUY to make it that convenient to read!  That's a BIG difference.  By putting it online, it becomes much more like the book that you OWN in your home than the book that you BROWSE in a store.  

Shivas --

Once again, you're right in everything you say here. (Twice in one week!)

Even so: I think they should let you "browse" a big part of the book (if not the whole thing), because if it's as important and well-done a book as many here would have us believe, most people who would "browse" a big portion of it would end up buying it.

As it is, they're not letting people "browse" enough of it to SELL them on it -- IMO.

[THuckaby2]

Hey Dan - what about the kid here? Can I be right about SOMETHING?  My batting average this week is way below the Mendoza line, and I need a charity hit.  I did say pretty much the same thing as shivas....

 

I still think Geoff is more of a "name" than unknown, and for that reason, people don't need to see the whole thing to buy the book - more are gonna buy it for his name than would buy it for some light bulb that goes on in reading huge parts on-line.  But hell, whatever gets people to buy it remains a good thing.  Here's hoping lots of people do.

TH

ps - screw you NAF - you must have some ties to the publishing industry as once again you manage to get a book way ahead of me.  I just got an email saying they were shipping it today, and I ordered it a week ago.  Damn.

[George Pazin]

I'd buy any book with Geoff's name on the cover.

Not because I know and like Geoff - my only contact with him has been on this site like most everyone else. But because he has proven time and again to be a thoughtful writer who produces terrific work.

Got my copies a couple days ago - so far it's been an interesting read, and I think it has covered some things not discussed on here.

Anyone who prefers to sit at a desk and read a computer screen, or print out a 150 page document, has WAAAAAAAAY more patience than me. I'll never give up holding a good book in my hand - to me that'd be like giving up real golf for the video games.

P.S. Maybe Tuco works at iUniverse - I got my confirmation email Monday and the shipment Wednesday.

[Tim_Weiman]

Dan Kelly:

Is there any industry sales data to back up your suggestion that providing books for free - or large portions of them - will result in higher sales?

If so, could you refer us to such a study?

[THuckaby2]

Concur with that, George - and maybe that skews the thinking here.  I buy anything and everything Geoff writes because I became a fan starting with "Good Doctor" and I dig his writing.  Man I loved Grounds for Golf...

No just how the hell the whole world got this before me is killing me.  I had to be the very first one to order it.  I think I paid the high shipping price... Oh well.  Patience.... but maybe Tuco is sabotaging me!

 

I too don't think anyone would sit and read the whole book on a computer screen - not in huge chunks anyway - but shivas is right - the fact it's there, accessible when one wants, could be a disincentive to buy for some people.

TH

[Dan Kelly]

Dan Kelly:

Is there any industry sales data to back up your suggestion that providing books for free - or large portions of them - will result in higher sales?

If so, could you refer us to such a study?

1. I don't know. I was merely floating a theory -- as my first post made quite plain.

I will say only that, based on my own experience (four books), the book business has plenty to learn about marketing.

2. N/A.

[Dan Kelly]

I'd buy any book with Geoff's name on the cover.

Right. So they don't need to sell the book AT ALL to you. For people such as you, there's no need to put ANY of the book on the Web, for "browsing" purposes.

It's not true-blue Shackelford fans I was talking about, above. I was talking about people who might -- or might not -- buy a Shackelford book.

Anyone who prefers to sit at a desk and read a computer screen, or print out a 150 page document, has WAAAAAAAAY more patience than me. I'll never give up holding a good book in my hand - to me that'd be like giving up real golf for the video games.

Right. Couldn't agree more. (In my mind, it's a "book" only if it's printed on decent paper and has a cover and you can hold it in your hands. Otherwise, it's a document, perhaps functionally equivalent to a book ... but it's not a book -- any more than ... well, let's not discuss Massachusetts law here.)

I can't imagine that almost anyone would print out the whole thing, one page at a time. A freakishly small number, not worth worrying about.

I'm guessing 99.44 percent of all those who would start reading it on the Web would either (a) quit at some point, and say "The hell with that"; or (b) quit at some point, and order the real thing. The other 0.56% (Tim Weiman: These are just "joke" percentages) would be divided between those who read the whole thing online and then don't order it and those who read the whole thing online and then do order it.

All I'm guessing is: If you allow people to browse more than just a scant few pages, you'll end up selling more books. Note: guessing.

[THuckaby2]

I have a scientific sample of three:

Two are fans, both read a bit on-line, both bought the book just because it's Geoff's latest.

One is not a fan per se, but devours all things golf, and did not buy the book, with the exact reason of "why should I buy it when I can just read it all on-line."

So Dan, your argument here makes very good sense to me.  I guess it would be odd to print it all out, but man that's the first thing I thought of.. we have a very high speed printer here and 200 pages is a lot, but not atypical... But ok, I guess this is insignificant, not many people would even think this way, or have the access to such hardware, or be willing to use it.  Hell even I wasn't, even if the thought did occur to me.

But read it on-line?  I think the third person above isn't atypical at all... it's not tough to read a few pages, come back later, read a few more... the fact you're doing so on a computer screen doesn't seem THAT strange to me....

So do you wish your books were all on-line in entirety?  Hell I'm just stoked to hear you HAVE four books... where do I get them?  I gather not on-line, huh?

TH

[Willie_Dow]

Had'a bring this thread back.

If I were to write a book, I would have said everything that Geoff has said.  And I am only one half through this little paperback - but it is better than a volume of thoughts projected by any of us.

Tom Paul, you must agree.

Willie

[buffett_guy]

Just finished the book today and it is a very quick and enjoyable read. I think many of the ideas should be implemented immediately. To wit, I would enjoy a skins game with stymies. I suggest a foursome of Colin Montgomerie, Thomas Bjorn, Seve Ballesteros, and Steve Elkington.  Now that's entertainment. Create yer own contentious foursome just for fun.

This has probably been discussed on the board already, but the question that popped into my head as I was reading was, "does anyone have a prototype "Classic Course Ball" ready to go. I'd buy a dozen today if they were reasonably priced. I'd love to take that for a whirl. I don't understand why this hasn't happened yet at a course where there are a few like minded folks who would be willing to hold an experimental tournament. Give it a shot. Or just play a tournament with the top flites (name your brand) that can be had from walmart for nothin'.

Lastly, I recommend spelling Warren Buffett (two t's) correctly in the second edition. His net worth is an order of magnitude (mba speak) higher than the quoted "few billion."

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