Your Own Personal Custodians of the Game?

[Mark Pearce]

I'm still struggling to understand why we're discussing TOC in the context of the Links Trust when they are responsible for 14 and 15 on the Eden. If TOC had all the width it should have, would that make the Trust Custodians of the game?  What if TOC was perfect inn our eyes but they'd built flats on the New?

[Sean_A]

I'm still struggling to understand why we're discussing TOC in the context of the Links Trust when they are responsible for 14 and 15 on the Eden. If TOC had all the width it should have, would that make the Trust Custodians of the game?  What if TOC was perfect inn our eyes but they'd built flats on the New?

We can’t discuss both?

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

I'm still struggling to understand why we're discussing TOC in the context of the Links Trust when they are responsible for 14 and 15 on the Eden. If TOC had all the width it should have, would that make the Trust Custodians of the game?  What if TOC was perfect inn our eyes but they'd built flats on the New?

We can’t discuss both?

Ciao

The list is a list of Custodians of the Game.  I can't see how they can be a Custodian of the Game and have done that to the Eden, however well they have cared for TOC.  So yes, you can discuss TOC, and mowing lines but, so far as the Trust is concerned, I think it's hard to choose them as a Personal Custodian (and your posts suggest that you don't see them as one, in any event) and the Eden is a much more obvious disqualifier than the mowing lines on TOC

[Sean_A]

I'm still struggling to understand why we're discussing TOC in the context of the Links Trust when they are responsible for 14 and 15 on the Eden. If TOC had all the width it should have, would that make the Trust Custodians of the game?  What if TOC was perfect inn our eyes but they'd built flats on the New?

We can’t discuss both?

Ciao

The list is a list of Custodians of the Game.  I can't see how they can be a Custodian of the Game and have done that to the Eden, however well they have cared for TOC.  So yes, you can discuss TOC, and mowing lines but, so far as the Trust is concerned, I think it's hard to choose them as a Personal Custodian (and your posts suggest that you don't see them as one, in any event) and the Eden is a much more obvious disqualifier than the mowing lines on TOC

Who else is the custodian of TOC?

And yes, what was done to the Eden is disgraceful. I would say the same about the Valley Links at Portrush. Much like the Eden, the Valley was sacrificed to the alter of the Open.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

The thread is Custodian of the Game, not any specific course.  And my understanding is that the purpose is to identify excellent custodians, not failing ones.  Yes, the Trust are custodians of TOC.  Where they have done a middling job.  But as custodians of the GAME, I think they fall well short.

[Sean_A]

The thread is Custodian of the Game, not any specific course.  And my understanding is that the purpose is to identify excellent custodians, not failing ones.  Yes, the Trust are custodians of TOC.  Where they have done a middling job.  But as custodians of the GAME, I think they fall well short.

I don’t understand this post. The Custodians is about specific courses which support certain ideals of the game. I note Ran has TOC on his list and wondered if I would include it given the poor presentation which is in direct conflict with the very essence of TOC’s reason for its fame. Despite this, TOC is worth considering…no?

I don’t think I would consider the Eden for inclusion.

Ciao

[Niall C]

Sean


Surely Custodians is a reference to the people/club who manage and look after a course, and making Ran's 147 picks is a reflection on how they did that. Therefore in relation to TOC or the Eden, the Links Trust would be the custodian. Mark's point is that they haven't done a good enough job.


Niall

[Sean_A]

Sean

Surely Custodians is a reference to the people/club who manage and look after a course, and making Ran's 147 picks is a reflection on how they did that. Therefore in relation to TOC or the Eden, the Links Trust would be the custodian. Mark's point is that they haven't done a good enough job.

Niall

Yep, that is my take at least for Eden. Despite my disappointment with the Trust, I might include TOC on my list. Ran obviously does. The New would make my list.

Ciao

[Mark Pearce]

Sean

Surely Custodians is a reference to the people/club who manage and look after a course, and making Ran's 147 picks is a reflection on how they did that. Therefore in relation to TOC or the Eden, the Links Trust would be the custodian. Mark's point is that they haven't done a good enough job.

Niall

Yep, that is my take at least for Eden. Despite my disappointment with the Trust, I might include TOC on my list. Ran obviously does. The New would make my list.

Ciao

Sean,


I don't see how you can identify the same body as custodians of the game for the way they have looked after TOC and dismiss them for Eden.  Ran's selection of a course as a custodian doesn't really make sense, surely the custodians are the clubs/owners of the courses listed?  If Ran intended to identify the Trust, then I think they are disqualified by their "care" of the Eden and his inclusion of TOC was a mistake. 


If, however, the list is really intended as a list of courses which demonstrate good custodianship of a course, rather than the game, then I can see TOC being included, as, in respect of that course, they have done a good job.

[Sean_A]

Sean

Surely Custodians is a reference to the people/club who manage and look after a course, and making Ran's 147 picks is a reflection on how they did that. Therefore in relation to TOC or the Eden, the Links Trust would be the custodian. Mark's point is that they haven't done a good enough job.

Niall

Yep, that is my take at least for Eden. Despite my disappointment with the Trust, I might include TOC on my list. Ran obviously does. The New would make my list.

Ciao

Sean,


I don't see how you can identify the same body as custodians of the game for the way they have looked after TOC and dismiss them for Eden.  Ran's selection of a course as a custodian doesn't really make sense, surely the custodians are the clubs/owners of the courses listed?  If Ran intended to identify the Trust, then I think they are disqualified by their "care" of the Eden and his inclusion of TOC was a mistake. 


If, however, the list is really intended as a list of courses which demonstrate good custodianship of a course, rather than the game, then I can see TOC being included, as, in respect of that course, they have done a good job.

I don’t understand. No, I wouldn’t include Eden on my list, so we agree. I still might include TOC despite dubious presentation. I would include The New. So the Trust has done a good job with the New, a decent job with the Old and poor job with the Eden.

Ciao

[Tom_Doak]

I had lunch at Muirfield today, and thought of this thread. 


I know Ran isn’t the biggest fan of the golf course, but if the HCEG is not one of the Custodians of the Game, I must not understand the game very well.

[Kyle Harris]

I had lunch at Muirfield today, and thought of this thread. 


I know Ran isn’t the biggest fan of the golf course, but if the HCEG is not one of the Custodians of the Game, I must not understand the game very well.

They weren't what they are when Ran first made this list.

[Shane Wright]

I had lunch at Muirfield today, and thought of this thread. 


I know Ran isn’t the biggest fan of the golf course, but if the HCEG is not one of the Custodians of the Game, I must not understand the game very well.

It's listed as one of the 147 and it definitely should be!

[Marty Bonnar]

I had lunch at Muirfield today, and thought of this thread. 


I know Ran isn’t the biggest fan of the golf course, but if the HCEG is not one of the Custodians of the Game, I must not understand the game very well.

Please, please, please tell us (if you can!) that they’re engaging you to look at all that lovely land over by the Forth as a possible location for their 2nd Course!!?
 

[Tom_Doak]

I had lunch at Muirfield today, and thought of this thread. 


I know Ran isn’t the biggest fan of the golf course, but if the HCEG is not one of the Custodians of the Game, I must not understand the game very well.

Please, please, please tell us (if you can!) that they’re engaging you to look at all that lovely land over by the Forth as a possible location for their 2nd Course!!?
 

No, the Secretary introduced me to one of the members by saying that, but he was only teasing.


However I was surprised to hear they haven’t given up on the idea.

[Joe_Tucholski]

Ok, do folks think The Links Trust has been a good custodian of TOC? Good enough to be included on a list like this?

Ciao

The links trust has an impossible task.


I'm of the opinion that large important organizations have to distribute power which means there's always going to be someone, and maybe everyone, who is unhappy...such is compromise.  There are at least 10 different clubs, almost 20 categories of links ticket holders, casual golfers/tourists, passionate golfers, locals who don't play golf, historians, fans of The Open and many others who have an interest in the courses the links trust manages.


I assume the R&A has very different objectives than say the St. Rule Club or the Thistle Golf Club. 


I assume a local university links ticket holder has very different desires than a wealthy American flying a private jet to visit.


Even though I'll complain about many things the trust has done and will continue to do I'm eagerly awaiting my name to move up on the links ticket waiting list.


So to answer the question it would be at the top of my list.

[Richard Fisher]

V well said Joe. The Links Trust is reconciling a huge number of different wants and interests, and across the six and a half courses those wants and interests will be reflected in all sorts of ways. Of course there will be occasional tensions between the various interested parties, but that’s inevitable given the numbers who want to play. Always worth remembering that until 1946 local ratepayers didn’t pay anything at all for their annual golf! Full disclaimer - my own stake is that of an R&A member.

[Ben Sims]

Ok, do folks think The Links Trust has been a good custodian of TOC? Good enough to be included on a list like this?

Ciao

The links trust has an impossible task.


I'm of the opinion that large important organizations have to distribute power which means there's always going to be someone, and maybe everyone, who is unhappy...such is compromise.  There are at least 10 different clubs, almost 20 categories of links ticket holders, casual golfers/tourists, passionate golfers, locals who don't play golf, historians, fans of The Open and many others who have an interest in the courses the links trust manages.


I assume the R&A has very different objectives than say the St. Rule Club or the Thistle Golf Club. 


I assume a local university links ticket holder has very different desires than a wealthy American flying a private jet to visit.


Even though I'll complain about many things the trust has done and will continue to do I'm eagerly awaiting my name to move up on the links ticket waiting list.


So to answer the question it would be at the top of my list.

Well said Joe. I agree with your opinion about large organizations. I think we have both experienced less than ideal circumstances being foisted upon the masses by a large organization in the name of expediency and the lesser evil. The Links Trust fits that bill. As do other clubs in Scotland to a lesser extent.


Not to put you on the spot, but as a custodian, I wonder if you think Pinehurst has these same issues? 

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